> I don't know how to square the elevation of the tolerance in the ottoman empire while at the same time decrying the apartheid within Israel's borders.
Well for starters I don’t test the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century and Israel in the 21st against the same standard. We’re not saying the Ottomans were great by a modern western standard, but compared to most of the west in their day they were quite good.
yeah, fair enough. I don't think there one "right way" of looking at all this. I think it's important to keep all those things in mind at the same time, including what you're saying about standards and how they change over time.
My point was that when we look back at times of peaceful coexistence within empires, it was often the results of suppression of dissent. Empires are fundamentally at odds with national self determination. Empires are by definition violent subjugation of people and self-determination movements often require violence to counteract that.
It's easy to take past empires for granted and assume they are "how things are"; but when they fail and crumble they do so for a reason, they contain the seed of their own destruction, because they impose stability and order over internal and extern forces that push against them.
Well for starters I don’t test the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century and Israel in the 21st against the same standard. We’re not saying the Ottomans were great by a modern western standard, but compared to most of the west in their day they were quite good.