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Go beyond the specs, though. Which windows laptops have similar combination of all metal build with tight tolerances, a display hinge that doesn’t wobble, a nice keyboard and even close to similar feeling trackpad at this 600 dollar price point? Most non haptic trackpads are dive board designs where you can only press the lower part of it because they hinge from the top, whereas as Neo’s trackpad is completely floating and can be pressed even on the very top. Also, one of main target audiences - students - can have this for much cheaper with education pricing.

If quality and in-hand feel matters to you at all, you’ll be hard pressed to find a more well rounded laptop than a MacBook at any price point.


As I said in another thread $650 HP OmniBook 5 on Ryzen is faster, more RAM, feels great to use, and I don't have to deal with MacOS!

IMO, there's nothing comparable to MacBook Air in its price range if you are an average user. Neo is even better in that aspect. The model you cited sounds better if you are planning to use Linux and are computer literate. But if you just want something that is good (not perfect) at everything usual, a MacBook is a no-brainer.

I don't think MacOS is better than Windows, so I disagree with that take.

Not liking interacting with an OS is a fair choice to make, but don't be fooled by the bolted-on specs like "more RAM" when less of it is available to the user due to the built-in software and driver compatability issues. It's almost always slower, older, and less quality. They do Product Binning and give the worst quality leftovers to the built-in machines where people are less likely to notice and because it won't change the brand's reputation. The difference between i9, i7, etc are just how many defects there are- they're printed identically on the same wafers.

Even IF the processor and RAM combined with Windows and bloatware is faster, you know they're going to have to cut corners on things like keyboard, trackpad, monitor, battery, webcams, heatsinks, etc.


To save anyone else trying to figure out what computer lostmsu is talking about, at least going by the current prices on HP's website (not MSRP):

HP OmniBook 5 Laptop Next Gen AI 16-fb0037nr

If I were shopping for a cheap laptop I would have given up and bought a Macbook Neo before I found that one.


Sorry about that, here's a link where you can buy one: https://www.staples.com/hp-omnibook-5-16-2k-laptop-copilot-p...

I have no affiliation with them of any kind


Oh, the 16-ag1067st not the 16-fb0037nr, of course!

It's out of stock for me, and the couple of other locations that I checked via VPN.

The "st" at the end appears to be a Staples specific part number, so I found the less specific "16-ag1067" on Amazon for $1051. https://www.amazon.ca/HP-OmniBook-1920x1200-Graphics-Keyboar...

On HP's own online store though, this model number doesn't exist.

Took another look at the 16-fb0037nr that I found earlier when browsing HP's store by price, that one's a Snapdragon instead of Ryzen, so very different computer. Don't know what the state of Window's ARM compatibility layer is.

Anyway, this is the typical experience of looking at non-Apple laptops and it sucks.


I'd be interested in this but it seems the price is much higher than stated here, or this was some temporary deal. It's also larger and quite a bit heavier but I guess that is a personal preference. The screen also looks pretty lacking (300 nits!). I do see it around $1200 CAD where the new macbook is $800 CAD and in stock. However all said I do not think a lot of people will be buying this new macbook because they are comparing specifications. Laptop manufacturers show off their specifications and have tons of different models because that is how they can differentiate their products from each other. Apple doesn't need to play that game and can deliver usability and value, and good in-person after sales support to the general consumer.

What about battery life and weight though?

And how much does the charger weigh as well? The neo can basically share the charger with your phone…


How’s the screen, battery life, trackpad?

lol $150 more for a crappy low res display etc. So bad.

Apple appears to know better by asking whole $200 more for upgrading from 13 to 15 inch screen in their Air line.

An all metal build doesn't stand up well to abuse versus higher quality plastics.

Looks nicer. For a time, or if taken care of.


That’s certainly up for debate. Thinkpads are some of the most rugged laptops available, and their top models are made from magnesium alloys or carbon fibre. Only their lower end E and L series are ABS builds.

In my personal experience, my MacBooks look much less shinier/worn out in the palm rest areas on either sides of trackpad compared to any windows laptop I’ve owned, which include an Alienware R15.

I don’t know enough about material science to have more than empirical data or correlations, though.


Ask me about my PowerBook G4 Ti! Loved that laptop. Too bad about the titanium.

I actually dig the patinated look of my dented and scratched old MBP and my current MBA. My plastic Dells from work always look terrible after a few trips living in my backpack and getting banged around. Haven't had actual usability issues with either though.

I have.

Plastic is great, until your laptop falls and the plastic shell shatters. That's the weakness of plastic - it's brittle. I have a ten year old macbook with a dinged aluminium chassis. The structure of the shell is still intact despite a few falls.


Not all plastics are brittle, even after time. It is highly dependent on the plastic used.

ok, now please explain whether any plastic is more or less brittle than aluminium.

It's not.

That being said, aluminum will suffer from dents and scratches. Every material is a trade off. You're not going to pull a "gotcha" comment, here.


I feel I can given up most packages I use for some hand rolled code (with a significant time investment, that is). There will be tradeoffs.

Every thing except magit. I can’t think of a better way to use git, and it’s one of the main reasons I’ve never survived my adventures in editor wilds for very long.


The important part is you don’t have to remember that gobbledygook. I don’t know why author posted that key stroke list as it seems to remove value from this post and make it look harder than it is.

Magit surfaces all available commands and options for you, along with key shortcuts as well as the actual git cli counterparts if you want to learn the raw command, too.


Pebble was my first smartwatch, all the way back in 2015. It was fun and quirky back when it was first released. Then it stopped production for many years while smartwatch category grew. Now they're coming back with same/similar models as before.

For me, its value lies more in nostalgia than anything else. I don't expect it to ever compete with the likes of my Apple watch for smart features, or a Garmin for activity tracking.

That said, it's an e-paper display so battery life is pretty good. Plus it had (and probably will have) an active community of small apps and watchfaces, which kept (and probably will keep) it from becoming stale quickly.


It's a very minor distinction, but they aren't a epaper display (low refresh rate, zero power to maintain an image), rather the technology is a sharp memory LCD (ludicrously low power, but high refresh rate). They're extremely neat and don't suffer from the washed out color and ghosting that epaper does, at the cost of needing ever so slightly above no power to keep an image displayed. I much, much prefer them even though Sharp doesn't really advertise them anymore.

https://sharpdevices.com/memory-lcd/


Isn’t e-paper the general category of low power displays? I understand that “e-ink” are a trademarked subset of the broader e-paper category, which also includes memory-in-pixel LCD displays which other watches like Garmin (and probably pebble) have. E-ink displays are only manufactured by eink corp, and are popularly found on e-readers, shelf price tags in some stores etc.

I may be mixing terms in my brain, though. Happy to be corrected.


I haven't really heard it being used like that, always heard e-paper being used as the specific e-ink displays and never anything else. The only time I've seen the (in my mind) confused messaging is on Pebble's own website, I still have my original Pebble Time somewhere, and that's a good part just down to how much I love those displays. I don't think I'd have used one for years if they were epaper.


> The only time I've seen the (in my mind) confused messaging is on Pebble's own website

Yeah, other wearable manufacturers who use the same display technology usually call it MIP instead. Pebble are pretty much the only ones who call it e-paper, which has led some to think theirs is a distinct thing, but it's just MIP.


> Isn’t e-paper the general category of low power displays?

Yes, or more precisely: reflective displays without backlight. There were many such display technologies a while ago (when the Kindle took off and various companies tried to compete with E Ink), but most have since been abandoned.

Pretty much all colored e-paper screens have much lower contrast than color printing on paper, since they mix colors by using can conventional RGB sub-pixels and darkening them individually, just like regular lit screens, which reduces the amount of reflected light.


> Pretty much all colored e-paper screens have much lower contrast than color printing on paper, since they mix colors by using can conventional RGB sub-pixels and darkening them individually, just like regular lit screens, which reduces the amount of reflected light.

Isn't that how color images printed paper works, too? We use inks (often in CMYK coloration, but a galaxy of other options exist) to subtract light from what would otherwise be reflected by a plain white paper.

What makes e-paper screens worse in this way?


> Isn't that how color images printed paper works, too?

No. When you print a piece of paper some color, e.g. red, it will be completely red. But most e-paper screens will only be 33% red (optimistically) and 66% black. This is because physical pixels usually can't change color themselves, only brightness, so you use three of them, and darken the RGB components, to produce a colored pixel.

For displaying white on color e-paper screens you will have three non-dark RGB sub-pixels, but each color component only reflects at most a third of the incoming spectrum, either red, green, or blue wavelengths, while white paper (or monochromatic e-paper screens) will reflect all three wavelengths everywhere.


That’s not really correct, modern color eink displays actually change color, there’s different pigments inside each cell and others are created visually using dithering. Only the older type are monochrome displays with a color filter behaves like you’re describing.

https://www.eink.com/tech/detail/How_it_works


Yeah, E Ink Gallery is the only real exception to the rule with full color support. (The store signage can also change colors, but they don't support color mixing, so there are just three or four colors in total.) Unfortunately, even after 10 years, E Ink Gallery is still far behind colored paper in quality. I think fundamentally their approach to e-paper (electrophoresis displays) is just not suited for full color.


Multi-pigment panels exist but in practice nearly all color e-readers still use the filter-based panels, because they are so much cheaper. There are zero Kindle or Kobo models with the multi-pigment technology.


The ReMarkable devices are E Ink Gallery 3 multi pigment display, I have one on my desk.


I did say nearly all, and the price of the ReMarkable Pros reflects on how expensive the Gallery panels still are.


They more or less have colored particles hanging around in goop and those get pushed around within a small sealed cell by electrostatic charges, there’s presumably some fundamental limit on the total quantity of the colored particles within the cell that’s quite low. I think modern displays have 4 different colored particles in each cell implying only a small portion of the contents is viewable most of the time. On paper you can have basically 100% saturation of whatever color you want in one area.


I believe (correct me if I’m wrong), their point is that with time, we’re writing less code ourselves and more through LLMs. This can make people disconnected from the “joy” of using certain programming languages over others. I’ve only used cl for toy projects and use elisp to configure my editor. As models get better (they’re already very good), the cost of trashing code spirals downwards. The nuances of one language being aesthetically better than other will matter less over time.

FWIW, I also think performant languages like rust will gain way more prominence. Their main downside is that they’re more “involved” to write. But they’re fast and have good type systems. If humans aren’t writing code directly anymore, would a language being simpler or cleverer to read and write ultimately matter? Why would you ask a model to write your project in python, for instance? If only a model will ever interact with code, choice of language will be purely functional. I know we’re not fully there yet but latest models like opus 4.6 are extremely good at reasoning and often one-shotting solutions.

Going back to lower level languages isn’t completely out of the picture, but models have to get way better and require way less intervention for that to happen.


My Sony TV has android and is fairly responsive. Maybe a second lag, but definitely not 10-20 secs. I do need to give it time to “warm up” when I start it, though. I use it so rarely it’s generally turned off from wall outlet.

I still prefer Apple TV for various reasons, though, responsiveness being one of them.


Maybe a second lag

Even a second lag is insane. I don't understand how people tolerate that.


They do not know any better, I suppose. Reading these threads just makes me wonder: if you guys have so many problems, why do you not torrent?


Torrenting is easy, but what are you goung to do with the torrented files then? Without additional external hardware you probably won't be able to play your downloaded files on your large TV, and most people prefer a laggy simple route over having to do more work. I do torrent from time to time, but the hassle associated with the whole process really highlights why streaming apps took over.


What additional hardware? If you're torrenting you have a PC or laptop, plug said device into your TV and you're good to go


Are you finding and setting up a remote that works on your PC/Laptop, or are you getting up every time you want to change shows or play/pause?


Wireless keyboard with a trackpad.


I do not understand what hassle. There has never been a hassle associated with it, not even back when I had to burn DVDs... Oh well.


Sony TVs are some of the most sane options in the TV market right now. Generally decent, and they don't fight you if you want to use them without connecting them to the internet. Still not perfect and they'll cost you more, but it's a worthwhile trade to me.


When you watch the Samsung traffic that goes out, it’s grim. It bypasses local dns too.

I Piholed mine with an edge router and redirected port 53 traffic that didn’t come from the Pihole, back to the Pihole with a script.

However I’ve upgraded to a Dream machine pro, and haven’t worked out how to do that so just removed it from having any network access.


This is a great resource! I’ve used awk for only the most basic field wrangling. This makes me more confident in doing fancier things that I’d otherwise use grep for.


I don’t see myself switching from 1password simply because I don’t think Apple passwords autofill will work natively with non-safari browsers or Linux, both of which I also use. Also, I find the handy 1password mini source pretty convenient.


Other browsers could add support for the native macOS password autofill apis (introduced back in 2020 in macOS Big Sur). So far both Chrome[1] and Firefox[2] have refused to add support.

[1] https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15

[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212


That exchange with Vas (on the Chrome side) was more than a little frustrating.

"Chrome isn't just an App, it's a password provider. We're not throwing that away for Apple."

I don't think that was anyone's intention. Just to support filling passwords from other sources. But he locked into a single use case that was a straw man. "I can understand how some users might want that. That's not a priority for us."


I haven't determined yet whether the new Passwords app will support my killer feature for 1Password: non-password-stuff.

I keep family members' social security numbers, security questions and answers, passport numbers, etc in there, and I don't want to split that data between a passwords app & secure notes.


Yes, it's so nice to keep random info in 1Password. I keep my VIN/license plate, software licenses, API tokens, drivers license info w/ pictures, insurance cards, etc.


It already works for Chrome. Apple has an official extension. However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA


That one? TIL

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/icloud-passwords/pe...

> The iCloud Passwords extension is compatible with macOS Sonoma and Windows versions supported by the iCloud for Windows app. To enable the extension on a PC, download the iCloud for Windows app from the Microsoft Store and enable iCloud Passwords.

So AIUI no Linux? (vested interest as that would be my use case)

> However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA

Well I'd be annoyed if iCloud-stored passwords weren't protected by MFA.

Tangent: I wish the EU would crack down on behemoths that borderline on being utility providers to publish protocol docs on grounds of:

a) auditability

b) interoperability

One can dream...


I live in India. My newspaper costs ₹230 a month. That's ₹2,760 a year and ₹27,600 for a decade (not factoring inflation). At today's conversion rates, that's $333.58 for entire decade.

If I pay the remaining amount of $2166.42 to the delivery person over 10 years, that's about ₹1493 per month, which is over 6 times the cost of newspaper subscription. For that amount, yeah, they'll be happy to hang the paper on a wall.


I use modus-vivendi on Emacs. Love the contrast and readability.


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