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Marketing is the art of fucking with discoverability so that your shit gets discovered instead of what is relevant.

You are familiar with Nike and Adidas. I want to start a shoe brand that makes shoes that would coincidentally be perfectly suited for your needs (whatever sport, activity, etc you enjoy). How do I get you to notice them?

Why do you think I am familiar with Nike and Adidas? Why would someone look to buy them instead of looking objectively at whats available?

You're competing against the very thing you're arguing for.


Why should I want your shoe brand? Why should I have to notice your shoe brand? Is your shoe not so good on it's own that anyone who buys one will go out of their way to tell everyone they know?

It isn't?

Then go away.

It's my attention. What right do you have to purchase it?


You make it relevant instead of merely making it present.

The jersey thing is completely insane to me. I'm from North America where jerseys are largely NBA, NHL and MLB. No ads (although, NHL has started). But the euro jersey has the biggest ad dead fucking center.

I understand the concept that the kit colours is what identifies the team, but still, I can't justify wearing a giant advertisement. If you gave it to me, I'd refuse it. Fuck you, pay me.


But they are being paid, they're paid a tremendous amount of money, and advertisements are where the money comes from.

He’s referring to jerseys sold to fans, not those worn by the athletes.

I understand they're being paid to wear their sponsors logo. I am not.

Yep. Every logo that is sewn onto my clothes, I remove with a razorblade before I wear them.

That's pretty extreme. I just buy stuff that is very minimalist with the logo. A small "swoosh" doesn't really bother me.

I reached a certain point and decided that a plain single color or striped cotton tshirt from kohls looks and feels as good as any plain single color cotton shirt that might have a swoosh on it. Bonus the no logo version is usually cheaper as well.

Is it actually extreme or is the overton window just beyond messed up?

Eh... gigantic logos on clothing have existed since the 70's. I do agree it's gotten WAY more prevalent from the 90's onward.

For sports shirts the advertising is literally part of the shirt design, if you remove all adverts with a razorblade now you'd wasted a lot of money on a shirt with huge holes in it.

A friend of mine used to do this with products that self-advertise when he was younger (I notice his Tilley hat is unmolested, presumably he had now stopped), but it doesn't really make sense on say a reproduction football kit.


Hah! Someone else who does that!

(Or at least I did, for a couple decades...)


NBA and MLB both have ads on the jersey (Nike and an additional per-team sponsor)

As someone who didn't grow up in NA, i don't understand this attitude. At least in soccer (football), we don't have to sit and watch ads and waste our time (barring the NA world cup). I know a league game will take ~2 hours to complete with a 15 minute half time break. I can allocate that time and then move on with my life. I much rather have that than having to sit through ads that end up taking more time than actual playtime! NBA used to have a thing called TV timeouts. But hey you don't get ads on the jersey

Not sure if there's push back or something behind this but a lot of premiership teams this season in the UK have a second kit where the sponsor is either missing or the same colour as the shirt so barely visible. Examples: https://www.safcstore.com/en/c-18416 https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/media-article/125th-an...

Watched Brighton beat Arsenal on the TV over the weekend and had no idea they had the sponsor’s name on their Jersey at all!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c65ym9ml19d0t


The same goes for international matches, no ads on jerseys.

Teams get paid to wear Nike or Adidas.

It led to the hilarious situation were they have to wear pink shoes so that the audience looks at them.


The best example is Jordan's 1992 Olympic cover-up

https://boardroom.tv/michael-jordan-olympic-jacket-nike-reeb...


Pink boots is because of the strong contrast against the green grass, no?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77kvx575npo

It's common even at a local grassroots level where local businesses will feature on the kits.


All of those sports have about 2 hours of advertising breaks during the game. Football has one, at half time, and that also includes some analysis.

NBA has had ads on jerseys since the 2017 season.

MLB since 2023.


What? Lakers are literally sponsored by Wish.

Yeah I don't watch basketball or baseball or football so I don't know. Those are US leagues for US sports for US people, with one team to pretend it isn't.

Why did you act like you did know in your original comment then?

I didn't

> I'm from North America where jerseys are largely NBA, NHL and MLB. No ads (although, NHL has started). But the euro jersey has the biggest ad dead fucking center.

This is what you said word for word.


eh because i for one would be happy if the planet destroyed most of us, i'm team planet all the way.



I'd argue that since TiVo, if you're showing ads because "we don't have an alternative", you actually want to show ads or at least won't make any effort to implement a 20 year old technology for the sake of convenience.

I have Weimaraners - they have the same problem and it sounds ridiculous with a French W. Braque de Ouais-mar instead of Veimaraner, can't stand it so I call them by their German names.

Sorry about your name though, I'll do my part in our area



Eh, the outrage never really materialized into anything worth continuing the leaks. Look at the Epstein files. "They" can just wait it out.

The banality of the day after outrage.

JD Vance, VP of the USA, recently said that if Watergate happened today it wouldn't last a 24 hour news cycle. I don't know if his intent was to minimize the crime of the acting President ordering a break in of his opponent or if Vance was inadvertently admitting that the stuff Trump is doing is so much worse than Watergate.

Both.

The first part because the second part.


The first part massively reinforced by the second. Maybe "because" is a stretch. Obama not Trump was the president when the Snowden leaks happened. Bush was president when it was going on. There was a lot of real evidence of crime there that went un-prosecuted. Crimes kept going. Extra-judicial droning of US citizens seems like a bigger deal that burglary of a psychiatrist office.

Something else to consider is that Watergate is orders of magnitude more of a scandal and has the mindshare to match compared to COINTELPRO.

Should that have been? Should it be now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO


Worth noting that nothing that could possibly be called the "The Epstein Files" was released and this is how the situation is understood by the public.

[flagged]


By what standards are the files "overhyped" ? Also to what hysteria do you refer? What would we experience if it was a massive pedo conspiracy of extremely rich and powerful people? Would they all just line up and turn themselves in?

"It's not in the officially released files that the government itself provided, therefore it didn't happen" is the level of 'reasoning' going on here.

> the ~government~ implicated itself provided

FTFY. Almost one and the same here but gives more context.


That and "ordinary" prostitution and "sleeziness" aren't important plus ignoring that Epstein wasn't just a pimp, he was very much a human trafficker, in the sense that he effectively coerced women into continuing their involvement with his operation.

When the Epstein news first really broke into the mainstream in 2019/2020, there were a ton of victim testimonials that were absolutely harrowing (and pointed to much weirder and more consequential stuff than "just" sex trafficking), it's been really surreal and disheartening to see the Trump-era releases successfully trivialize and downplay it.

By the standards of "jaw dropping things we heard" for which we now know there is no evidence. Not even any leaks of suggestive circumstantial evidence. Nothing to back the awful fantasies of things done to children. Zero.

Most, if not all of the highly compensated victims were adults when they met the turd Epstein and made decisions as adults. Their claims are untested and uncorroborated but they are massively compensated. Good for them, they're getting paid but the hysteria and panic cost us all. Note how none of the massively compensated can manage to claim anything verifiable involving crimes of sleazebags still living?

Dig up his ranch, sure, why not? Would you bet on anything resembling evidence being found? On the Island? In his NY appartments? All just a massive, highly coordinated, perfectly executed cover-up? Is the govt really that good to get perfectly right, 100% no errors? Under this kind of spotlight with so many looking out for it?

It's a great distraction and there is zero doubt that plenty in washington are taking full advantage. The corruption rages across the aisles.

Everything you think you know about Epstein's crimes, ask yourself "Where is the actual evidence for that?" When you start ignoring the podcast-claims for which there is nothing at all to back it. It starts to look more mundanely awful. Than some monumental bonfire of evil previously un-imagined. He went whoring with Bill Gates who got an STD and it's there in the files trashing Bill's reputation. That was left alone in the cover-up but their pedo ring behaviour perfectly removed without the suggestion of a trace?

People think there is this big conspiracy to conceal the evidence of a grand pedo ring but they didn't protect the moron formerly known as prince andrew from the fall, he'll be well angry if he knows things about a pedo ring so that would be hugely risky. Unbelievably so. Literally.

People want to believe all the worst fabrications. You don't need it, it's bad enough without all that. There's sleaze enough with evidence to prosecute. Prosecutions, starting with Andrew and Mandelson, should happen. And also for everyone else identified by evidence.

Not so much the completely innocent, ordinary people named by Massie and Khanna who aren't in those circles and for whom it seems vanishingly unlikely had anything much to do with Epstein at all, let alone involved in these most hideous of crimes. And who they've now gone completely quiet about having pointed squarely at them and yelled "Evil!"

It's a real shame the extent to which it has polluted rational policy discussion. There's a cost. The cost is larger than you think.


All of the evidence that I've personally seen is on the DOJ website. When you repeat "zero" and "none" over and over... where are you getting that information? It's very very definitive and I'm not sure how anyone could be so confident about something impossible like proving a negative. Do the victim statements not count for you because you've decided that they're "highly compensated" ... an assertion for which you provide no evidence?

A great distraction from what?

You can choose to dismiss the evidence that does exist because of your biases, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What is the cost you mention that's larger than I think? You keep doing this sort of thing... throwing out these weighty statements, but they're never concrete; never backed up with anything other than your conjecture. Why should anyone listen to you?


Wait what? Are you saying that everything I have seen on the Epstein files through 'public discourse' is BS? Like, all of it?

I can't call the grandparent account a shill bot because it's against HN rules, but some people bury their heads deep in the sand because they are unwilling to face the ugly reality.

You look for the actual evidence and work out how much of what you've heard is BS.

So why was he arrested in 2008 if there was no evidence? And again in 2019? And why would he hang himself if there was no evidence against him? That's a wild conspiracy theory you have, bud.

What was he arrested for? What was the evidence for it?

Was it a pedo blackmail ring of the powerful (who are all pedos so that is universal weakness to get control) at the behest of the Mossad and CIA involving throwing children from a plane over epstein island to remove the witness testimony?

Or something that isn't quite that.

Something which is itself a crime for which there is evidence, you can assess (and a court did!), to support it and is totally believable?

By this method you can begin to weed out the bullshit. Soon you look at the mountain of bullshit that you, yourself reject on your own terms, not necessarily agreeing with me or anyone else. A mountain just by looking.

--------

"Pol Pot was actually being controlled by the scientologist-mormon conspiracy to conquer Sweden to get total herring control."

"Wow? Really? What's the evidence?"

"He killed millions! Why are you defending Pol Pot and the conspiracy?!?! You must be in league with Tom Cruise and Mitt Romney!"

(I'm not completely convinced Epstein did kill himself as you seem to be for what it's worth. There seems to be some real evidence he did, it seems like the most likely explanation but I have some doubt. Based on evidence. What I don't have is any evidence of who did it and why _IF_ it wasn't suicide. Again suicide the most likely. I have enough imagination to invent cool stories involving MI5, the cia, the mossad and the french secret service but choose not to. I've heard plenty of other people's cool stories but yeah, not how I want to consume fiction).


You haven't shown any EVIDENCE why someone who had done nothing wrong would commit suicide. Someone who has hundreds of millions to fund a legal defense, quit before even trying to win in court. You are projecting the very thing you claim against others (lack evidence).

Ok, so Trump continues to flout the law in order to conceal the files, and had his AG lie that there were no files, and had FBI redact the files for months, and 'accidentally' failed to release the specific files of witness testimony naming Trump in the sexual assault of a minor ... why?

Exactly the behaviour you'd expect of a convicted sex offender and best friend of a paedophile, husband to an illegal immigrant apparently trafficked by that paedophile who was not covering anything up, huh. /s

I guess you also think the early closing of Congress to prevent any vote on Hegseth and Trump's war crimes to also just be a coincidence?

Aside from everything else, Trump is a convicted rapist - it's just shocking to me that people like yourself choose to support a person like that who is entirely unrepentant.


I do not now, nor have I ever supported the corrupt crooked politician known as Donald J. Trump.

Any and all evidence of Donald Trump's crimes (for which there is a very large amount of the actually credible variety, ie not this, not Russian collusion involving pissing prostitutes in Steele files) should result in his prosecution and Jailing. I would like to see that.

Let's re-phrase that more sensibly.

Any and all evidence of politician and senior public servant criminal corruption (for which there is a very large amount of the credible variety) should result in prosecution and Jailing.

Washington corruption? No! Look over there! Epstein pedo ring!


> Seems Epstein was a more commonplace sleazy creep into young prostitutes getting him into age of consent trouble in some states but not others.

Age of consent is eleven in which states?


I remember that being reported in newspapers in 2020 but did those allegations make it into "The Epstein Files"? (I have paid almost no attention since it's the most obvious limited hangout ever hung out.)

Some junky news site claimed nine, but saw eleven and thirteen more widely reported. Read some JMail but didn’t dig into the files beyond that. Sick stuff, respect to those whose jobs demand they closely follow everything.

Epstein was primarily a money man, but you’ll notice that this gets zero coverage. I guarantee there’s a lot of serious dirt there that will never see the light of day.

It’s almost better for the people involved if the public keeps focusing on the most outrageous aspects of the story. (And it is quite outrageous, and terrible, to be fair.)


> Seems Epstein was a more commonplace sleazy creep into young prostitutes getting him into age of consent trouble in some states but not others

As I understand it, the victims weren't prostitutes, but were just kids groomed into doing this.


This more than some cia/mossad front of blackmailing the powerful with horrific acts done to children.

IDK, the CIA/mossad pedophile part seems significant.

I don't think ordinary people upset at young girls being exploited for the purpose of blackmailing people are being 'naive' or something. Sure, it all pales in comparison to genocide X foreign land but people getting riled by that stuff too.


Quite a large amount of people have little empathy. Someone getting blown up somewhere else is a them problem. "I've never been blown up, they must have done something wrong to deserve it (I have heard things like this come out of peoples mouths)". Now, quite often those same people with little empathy have their own children therefore have an empathetic connection to the theoretical victim allowing them to contemplate the terror those children experienced. This allows the situation to be much more viceral to them. Also, pedophila is an act that is highly stimtized in most places in the world so the social shame and disgust phenomenon also applies.

Everyone should be incandescent with rage about that as soon as there's some evidence of it. And 100% it should be fully investigated.

Is it real? Are you being played with a lie? The further out we get the more it looks like the latter. But hey, I'll take evidence of a cover up. Not seeing anything much there either.

Maybe some real evidence will come soon? Thet can't keep dark forever, it's too big, too many people have touched it.


He served a jail sentence for this, wtf are you talking about? Are you that ignorant, or do you have an agenda?

Epstein served a jail sentence for running a pedo blackmail ring with the cia and mossad??

Got a plausible link to back that?


Moderately wild speculation: the genocide is directly related to the Epstein stuff. We know he had close ties to Mossad, and material that can blackmail the current president. All Mossad has to do is say: do this or we release the surveillance video. And they have been trying to get the USA to invade Iran for decades.

The blackmail theory explains:

- why congress itself voted to cover it up

- why there are these bizarre humiliation rituals like the FBI saying beastiality will not DQ you from working for the agency (some top FBI person likely screwed up something related to mossad and were forced to humiliate their agency).

- why the UFC thing happened on the Whitehouse. That's a caricature of our culture, like if we wanted to humiliate mexico by making them have a Mariachi festival or something.


Asserted without evidence and dismissed without evidence.

Not even evidence at the standard of proof, just anything at all other than a cool sounding story.

edit: clarity


The bestiality thing is obviously because the FBI is really trying to hire a specific person, and bestiality came up on their background check.

It's not that wild. It's pretty obvious he was collecting blackmail, and trump was his closest confidant, so it doesn't take "wild speculation" to come to this conclusion.

He had deep ties with Israel and Mossad and it's very likely the dirt they have on Trump is possibly the reason we are at war with Iran and bringing the world to the brink of WW3. It's wild to call it underhyped, if anything quite the opposite. It's heavily redacted and the worst half of it hasn't even been released.

That would be massive if true.

What evidence leads you to think Epstein ran blackmail rings on a loathsome and loathed sitting US president that led to him starting a war?

If that were true and you were looking for evidence of a cover up, what would you look for?


He had close ties with Mossad and Ehud Barak. The Israeli embassy specifically helped him wire up his apartment in New York with microphones and cameras to collect evidence.

And the evidence of a coverup is the heavily redacted half release of the files, all the fake theater around the release, the head of the FBI perjuring himself and lying about the files, and DoJ leadership lying and failing to act on the files.


How's AI doing in Russia with all the sanctions and whatnot?

The AI industry in Russia is not doing well. Domestic AI models exist, but they aren't exactly high performers, and many of them are based on the open weight Chinese models - so there is very little reason to use them. IT power users run Western or Chinese models, often through proxies, VPNs or resellers.

AI is being adopted and used, but if there was ever a chance of Russia being an AI power, it died in 2022.

A few formerly-Russian IT companies had their "rainy day" HQs overseas, and leveraged them to slip the noose and leave Russia - brain draining what AI expertise was available in the country. See: Yandex -> Nebius.



They have access to all the same open models that the rest of the world does, so just fine I would think.

They also access American models via proxies. Same as China

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