Except no one really disputes that training on copyrighted data and text is going on. The question is whether that is OK from a legal perspective. Which is a matter for the courts and the legislature.
Courts in the relevant jurisdictions don't work on "no one really disputes."
It would have to be _proven_ in a court, which involves evidence and testimony, and if the whistleblower was in a good position to provide credible testimony then his death would likely make it harder to do prove copyright violations have taken place.
I'm pretty sure any competent lawyer would stipulate that, in many/most cases, training is happening on copyrighted information. I'm also pretty sure that OpenAI is not arguing that all their training data is either licensed or they own the copyrights to. (Some companies, perhaps Adobe?, have been more conservative.) Perhaps I'm wrong. But I haven't heard that argument publicly and I would need to be convinced.
Gather and label are two wildly different things that change the entire context. They aren't saying go find this stuff for us, they are saying if people upload it or you find it in the data then, label it as such.
There is sufficiently convincing evidence for an investigation.
People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party.
More than three intersections, so its not coincidence.
This happens once, its a one-off but a couple of times, and you can no longer be permissive in your presumptions and reasoning, and must be much more restrictive.
3 times, in a short period of time (relatively speaking), is the magic number in statistics where given the astronomical number of possibilities, it happened the same way.
It indicates a trend which is more than deserving further investigation, and associated resources.
When the government cannot protect whistleblowers, the rule of law breaks down in a very public way. The rule by law which takes its place, letting the corrupt benefit, is just a stand in before collapse into increasing trends towards violence.
If the law is unable to hold people to account equally, with access, independent judiciary, transparency, and fulfilling its purpose of non-violent resolution, then it fails as a rule of law, and becomes a rule by law. Just like the events that happened to the Colonists in 1776, and the many abuses that led to uprising... when the courts failed and General Gage took over.
The primary purpose of the courts is equitable non-violent conflict resolution to the law. Its a pivotal pillar of civilized society, when people see it has failed, they may go for the brass verdict instead of volunteering themselves for a kafkaesque suicide court.
Feel free to investigate all you want, if you personally find there to be convincing, non-circumstantial evidence that the dude was explicitly killed by openAI.
People were lured into locations, where they were vulnerable, where they didn't want to participate; where it was by external forces (they had a lack of agency), and then they died, all to the one-way benefit of some party.
This is a contrived description that could apply to any number of events, from a policeman dying to someone dying of cancer. Fanciful narratives aren't evidence, though. Evidence is something like: Sally saw someone shoot the dude.
That is not how these things work. The general public can only call for a investigation.
For evidence to be actionable it requires a chain of custody that is preserved from an investigation, independents are often not recognized as meeting these requirements for chain of custody, or the power of subpoena.
You also don't get the former without first having the latter.
What you call a contrived description is in fact what is sometimes called a modus operandus, signature, or staging.
I find it quite the toxic situation to disparage or downplay circumstances where people have lost their lives for nothing more than upholding foundational principles of law.
These after all are country founding principles that are required for us to survive, that all American's should uphold. They didn't get their day in court because they were silenced.
> That is not how these things work. The general public can only call for a investigation
Sure, anybody can ask anybody else to investigate anything, but also anybody can investigate anything themselves. Of course, not everybody might have full access to everything, but access is earned by presenting convincing evidence thusfar. If you discover any evidence that openAI killed this person, it can be forwarded to authorities, who can use it to justify a more extensive investigation of their own, with subpoenas, etc.
Otherwise, we can expect a normal amount of investigation, like into any other apparent suicide.
> What you call a contrived description is in fact what is sometimes called a modus operandus, signature, or staging
What you previously called evidence, and now only call a modus operandus, signature, or staging, is in fact a contrived, self-serving, narrative description (one which you might have had even before this person passed away). I find that disparaging someone's reasonable skepticism here, is toxic to discourse.
Evidence is something like: Sally saw someone shoot the dude; we found an email from saltman ordering the hit; a video caught the whole murder on tape. Have you seen any actual evidence? I haven't. Only contrived, conspiratorial, self-serving narrative descriptions. Evidence warrants investigations, narratives about hypothetical motives don't.
> they were silenced
The 1 person we're discussing, evidently seems to have taken their own life, rather than being "silenced". It's tragic, but please don't exploit their memory for your own agenda with such unfounded, conspiratorial assertions. Prefix such assertions with "I personally believe...", and if so desired, "...based on no direct evidence thusfar...".
> Sure, anybody can ask anybody else to investigate anything.
Have you dealt with government workers before? Do you know any of them that would re-open an investigation on their own from submissions from an independent person that shows they got it wrong (egg on face)?
What would convincing evidence even look like to spur the necessary action after an investigation has been closed solely based on a medical examiner's report?
If a mistake was made from lack of direct evidence, how many reports are actually amended after-the-fact?
The truth is there isn't anything in the world that would meet sufficient criteria to offset the sloth or the general resistance when the establishment makes a mistake and closes investigations early. To say the contrary amounts to a pleasant idea nothing more.
No government worker is going to create more work for themselves after someone else has closed prelims, which is why this needs to be done carefully and properly the first time not haphazardly closed.
> What you previously called evidence ....
Yes, what I called evidence for an investigation, the operating context was and remains investigation. Same word different context and now you are trying to confuse and change it after the fact.
I don't want to impugn your reading ability/comprehension but this was clear from the very beginning in the first sentence. You are confusing yourself unnecessarily.
> I find that someone disparaging someone's reasonable skepticism here is toxic to discourse.
What you are calling disparaging I and everyone else call disagreeing, and pointing out reasoning flaws.
Disagreement is not toxic, it is a mandatory requirement for intelligent rational conversation. In order to think and generally be intelligent, one must risk being offensive, and in order to learn one must risk being offended.
If neither are possible, because you associate any disagreement as disparagement, you end up in a delusion, divorced and not accounting for reality. This state is not sustainable, and brings with it questions related to Darwin's fitness for individual survival.
> contrived, self-serving, narrative description
While not contrived, of course this is self-serving, as it should be for you too if you are a citizen. If you blew the whistle, died, and someone made it look like you killed yourself before you could relate that information, wouldn't you want justice? Wouldn't you want closure for your family so they can properly grieve?
What you seem to find reasonable, I find highly dubious because it can hardly follow reason when the basis is fallacious, lacking in identity, and circular.
There is a duty of care to properly investigate when people die. When there are many suspicious deaths, even moreso.
When such preliminary investigations are closed immediately because its convenient politically, its the duty of any citizen to call it out and apply the appropriate political pressure so that a proper investigation occurs and justice gets served.
There was physical evidence of blood in areas that don't match the narrative being pushed (suicide), that in fact contradict it.
> The 1 person we're discussing...
It has been inherent in the conversation and media that there have been three whistleblowers that have died in the past year under very suspicious circumstances, that were all ruled suicide with little preliminary investigation, and it sure looks like OpenAI pulled a Boeing.
> Please don't exploit their memory for your own agenda
I have no agenda aside from wanting justice served.
You are talking yourself in a circle, where overwhelming evidence that isn't quantifiable must be present before investigation, when such evidence can only be acquired in an investigation, and ignoring physical evidence reported that contradicts, it is completely irrational. These are well founded assertions that should be properly investigated.
It is clear from your stance that you would err on the side of doing nothing, not even properly investigating when suspicious deaths occur, and the resulting injustice would go unchecked.
If left unchecked by others, those shallow beliefs would lead to great destruction as a society.
When you support doing nothing and not even properly investigating, what you actually support is vigilantism or a brass verdict, and by extension the resulting additional victims (when information is false/incomplete but sufficient to spur others to action).
You either support a working system of non-violent conflict resolution which requires proper investigation upfront, or you end up supporting the latter (through inaction) and all the broad consequences that come with it.
Inaction is also an action. It is slothful to remain inert when action is dictated, but this is commonly seen in complacent people who have succumbed to the banality of evil. Left unchecked, this becomes a radical evil.
> There is a duty of care to properly investigate when people die.
Yes, usually every death is already investigated and run by a medical examiner. This is a proper amount of investigation, unless there is evidence to support a more extensive one.
> When there are many suspicious deaths, even moreso
Is there any evidence linking this death to the others you mention, and any consensus that all of them were suspicious, other than in your personal narrative of events? I have seen neither.
> Have you dealt with government workers before? Do you know any of them that would re-open an investigation on their own from submissions from an independent person that shows they got it wrong (egg on face)?
Obviously they wouldn't (and shouldn't) do it if you didn't have any evidence showing that the previous conclusion was wrong, and I have not seen any presented here.
> What would convincing evidence even look like to spur the necessary action after an investigation has been closed solely based on a medical examiner's report?
I've answered this twice, once in each of the above posts, suggesting what direct, non-circumstantial evidence might look like. A conspiratorial, self-serving personal narrative, conflating unconnected events, unfortunately isn't that.
> You are talking yourself in a circle, where overwhelming evidence that isn't quantifiable must be present before investigation, when such evidence can only be acquired in an investigation
This is actually a circle that you are talking yourself in. Things like search warrants can't be granted on the basis of 'another person [out of billions] also took their own life a while ago while under stress, that seems sus to me', and that doesn't sound like a good justification for focusing resources, either. What, then, are you proposing a new investigation should do?
Have you seen any direct, non-circumstantial evidence? Witnesses? Videos? Communications ordering a hit? Documents discussing it? Anything like that?
I haven't. And unfortunately you did not answer this question previously, so now it must be re-asked. I'm genuinely asking here. Maybe I missed some direct, non-circumstantial evidence. You mentioned something about blood, could you please [link] us to what you're talking about there?
Do you really think any proper investigation can be completed in the time it took them to close this?
For the record, that time was 40 seconds from the time they arrived at the scene. They couldn't even have had the firearm ownership information by that point.
The parents also found blood spatter where it shouldn't have been if it were a suicide, and signs of a struggle in the bathroom.
There needs to be a proper investigation. The duty of care has not been met.
Thanks -- can you please elaborate on the specifics of the "signs of struggle" and "blood spatter", as claimed by the family?
As for the investigation, your link says it was worked on, and is still ongoing. A private autopsy was completed, and from what I can gather, it did not prove the conspiracy either. What specifically are you proposing the investigation do, then?
The irony of your statement is that many of the core tech, protocol and software systems underpinning these big tech companies were developed in the EU.
When you have the time, checkout rates of the cancer and autoimmune within populations that live next to petro chemical facilities. The health impacts are generational, even for people who no longer live in those areas.
You can also checkout the track record of Shell in Nigeria to answer your question.
Read the actual report, that is not what it says. In fact, the report makes the opposite case for the most part (especially when electronics were also being interfered with and many of them developed holes in their ear drums.) The issue is that bar is so high for proof that the US government, at least publicly, dismissed it possibly to make Americans not freak out. This is all covered in the piece, and it also places people from the GRU at locations where this occurred, and they coincidentally are in a unit that works on microwave length weaponry. Could it be a huge coincidence? Maybe? But I've never heard of anyone developing holes in their ear drums from work stress.
What a lot of people dont realise is that the total carbon manufacturing footprint of an electric car tends to be more then that of a hybrid. In other words you need to drive an electric car for way longer before you’re carbon neutral vs driving a hybrid.
the biggest difference between a hybrid and an EV being the size of the battery, you're probably taking into account the carbon footprint of mining all the minerals for the battery from the ore. that's a huge cost, but the battery can be recycled and rebuilt with those purified metals for much less energy than it took to separate them from their ores.
You make an interesting case, but are you controlling for education level or profession of the parents before they immigrated to the US?
It wasn’t uncommon in the 80s-90s to meet an Eastern European, Asian or Jewish immigrant who came from a STEM background but for a variety of reasons couldn’t work in their field once they moved to the US so they worked as store clerks or taxi drivers.
Perhaps the differences your talking about isn’t cultural but rather dependent on what economic and education class the immigrant parents came from.
> The paper contrasts Nigerian newcomers with those from Somalia, whose work ethic is similarly strong, but whose lack of education hurts their employment prospects here.
> The authors wrote: “Overall, African-born immigrants aged 16 and over have a higher rate of employment (69.2%) relative to the foreign-born population (63.1%) and the general US population (59.9%).”
The study also notes significant differences between Nigerian immigrants, who mostly come from that country’s south, and Somalis. For one thing, with its history of British colonization, many more Nigerians speak English upon arrival in the U.S. than do Somalis. That makes the Nigerians’ transition easier in almost every respect.
“For the Nigerian-born immigrants, the proportion that possesses at least a bachelor's degree is 60.5%,” Chikanda said. “But when we look at the Somali-born population ... that's about 15%.”
He's not, it's the magical thinking "pulling yourself by your own bootstraps" when reality is that my kid is going to have a better outcome than the average Latino immigrant because both of his parents is college level educated, speak multiple languages and live in a well off zipcode, even though both me and his mother were poor back in Brazil.
It's sad to see people write off whole populations like this, "all the other immigrants that weren't european or asian", as if all africans and latinos are stupid and not that they didn't have any references of people that went to college or were educated and did well. Completely ignoring the environment these people came from.
I definitely recommend the work of professor Raj Chetty on the subject: https://rajchetty.com/
He talks a lot about how even growing up in a community with great role models (doesn't even have to be your own parents) affects the outcomes for kids because they get to KNOW there are other options.
When I got to college I had no idea I could move to another country by being a programmer, then a friend moved to Australia and I was like WAIT, I CAN DO THAT AS WELL? Most of my plans back then were to move to Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro to find a well paying job but that single friend that moved to another country completely opened over the world to me.
> He's not, it's the magical thinking "pulling yourself by your own bootstraps" when reality is that my kid is going to have a better outcome than the average Latino immigrant because both of his parents is college level educated, speak multiple languages and live in a well off zipcode, even though both me and his mother were poor back in Brazil.
If you compare two kids whose parents are at the 25th percentile economically, one whose parents are native born Americans and the other whose parents are Guatemalan, the Guatemalan kid is actually going do better as a grown up. And a Chinese kid will do better than both of them.
> And a Chinese kid will do better than both of them.
Speaking as someone who grew up in an area where Asian Americans were the majority, the average Chinese kid may ultimately fare better in terms of income, but may also have unresolved mental health issues steming from the crushing parental pressure in their childhood.
I know Asian Americans who are jealous about not having a permissive American-style upbringing. But in reality American kids just have different shit, like instability from parents getting divorced, or getting stuck at a dead end service job because nobody ever taught them to navigate the system.
America is brutal competition. Asian parenting at least prepares you for that.
Regardless, as to OP’a anecdote, what difference does that make if everyone is living in the same neighborhood in similar economic circumstances? When my uncles and aunts migrated to the US Canada and Australia, their degrees from Bangladesh were worthless. They worked service jobs or were just unemployed. What benefit did their kids get over other kids who were living in the same rundown subsidized apartment housing?
So your argument is, hopefully I’m not strawmanning:
People who are from cultures that value education tend to be more educated.
Based on that you reject the parent’s point about education being a function of student motivation (derived via social norms acquired via their families)?
How can genetics not also play a large part in human variation?
the reality in china is that in the older generations not many people are educated because they simply didn't have the opportunity. nevertheless they still push their children to study and take advantage of opportunities given to them.
^This. Just because one doesn't have education because one couldn't afford it doesn't mean one does not value education.
I'm from Europe and my grandad, god rest his soul, a welder with his only 4 years of school which were the norm for peasant farmers that the state would provide back then, would get confused and frustrated seeing the youth of today mock and shit all over the free, state-provided education, saying he'd have given anything to be able to have the amounts of education and opportunities the youth of today have and doesn't understand how they don't value it and instead choose to disregard it and treat school with such disrespect.
Which is why he encouraged my mom and later myself to keep hitting those books so we don't "end up like him", though a skilled welder today can earn more than many professions with college degrees.
This school of thought in the medical field is quite popular in the Netherlands and is picking up popularity within the UK; however from personal experience and that of others I’m noticing that it’s being used by doctors to dismiss people’s symptoms - particularly that of women (N<5)
In one case I know someone who had chronic health issues who had to change doctors after one year because her former GP (who was quite young) kept insisting her health issues were phycological. Her new GP (quite experienced) was able to identify several of the physical root causes to her complaints within months of her first visit and provide appropriate treatment afterwards. I see this pattern repeated with May of my other friends who have chronic health conditions and have had to deal with both health care systems.
I have two theories why this school of thought is gaining popularity in the west;
* Allows over worked or inexperienced doctors to easily dismiss patients because in their view they’re triaging patients complaints.
* Overloaded healthcare system is able to reduce the care patients need by effectively gas lighting them by saying “you need to need your lentils health”, “deal with your trauma” instead of seeing specialists and doing tests.
What you're talking about is completely orthogonal to the article, and the reality at play here:
1. Some emotional issues have physical manifestations (i.e. anxiety symptoms). But some physical manifestation have no root in mental behaviour (i.e. cancer).
2. Like we often see in software engineering, if you turn a metric into a target, it stops being useful. GPs have a KPI tracking the number of people they see in a given timeframe, thus are more likely to dismiss psychological thing because they're not easily visible and need a long time to pin down. One of the reason of the global mental health crisis, and why staff cuts make this even worse.
It is not a school of thought. It's a dysfunctional medical system. The sad reality is that medical doctors, that includes GPs and most psychiatrists, are inadequate to dealing with psychological issues that cannot be easily fixed, masked or numbed with a pill. Even a quack might be more helpful, at least they'll try to keep you around as long as possible instead of dismissing you with a script and a leaflet on meditation.
I’ve had the same experience. I’ve been looking into how to hang a tv on my dry wall and the quality on tiktok has been way better then what google or YouTube have been able to produce.
