Let me quote what you said when I asked how we can move from the objective facts of a thing to my subjective experience of that thing: "It's a thing of your imagination: for me, you just imagine that there is anything more than the electrical and chemical reactions, and there isn't anything." I take this to mean that you're saying the subjective experience is imaginary. If you now claim that subjective experience is an emergent property, then let me pose the question one more time: If subjective experience is an emergent phenomenon, we should ultimately be able to explain a given state of that phenomenon in terms of the material world (just like we're able to, ultimately, explain for example a state of Conway's game of life through the rules that govern that game). So, light of wavelenghts that we associate with the color yellow hit my eye and the signals eventually reach my brain. How can we go from that (objective) description of a signal entering my brain to my subjective experience of the color yellow? How can we infer from the configuration of neurons in my brain what the experience of that color is 'like'?
Also, when you say "you personally have an illusion of subjective experience as not being an emerging property, just like a traveler across the hot sand would see in the distance what would appear to him as a small lake, only to turn into a hot sand the closer he gets to that point." this is a very strange statement. I thought, up until now, that you were arguing that it was the subjective experience itself that was the illusion, but if I understand you correctly you're claiming that it is my belief in its uniqueness that is the illusion? If that is what you claim, then there is really not much to say to you, because this itself is an unsubstantiated claim. You apparently have a strong belief that everyone who believes consciousness to be a unique phenomenon is being tricked. Maybe you believe this because otherwise your belief that all of existence can be explained by the laws of physics will not be true? You want to believe in a orderly universe that we can wrap our heads around and explain, which is very natural - we humans have problems when things get too complex, but unfortunately it's not a belief that has been validated logically or scientifically. The same goes for your belief that "the gods were also invented by humans and there's nothing mysterious about that too". It's a nice thing to believe, and faith in a higher principle (like the laws of physics) is a precious thing that can help make sense of the world, but we should recognize that it is faith, not a necessary truth reached by rational thought. See this link: http://skepdic.com/wishfulthinking.html
But then later you also say "So is "subjective experience" illusory or not you ask? It exists, just like the mentioned human on the hot sand (or on the hot road) sees "water" in the distance". Now it seems it is the subjective experience itself that is the illusion, not my belief that it is a unique phenomenon. So which is it?
I thank you for all the explanations about Conway's game of life and the philosophical musings (that I emphasize, again, must not be mistaken for rational truth) that you give surrounding it. I have implemented my own (poor) version of this game before, so I am familiar with the concepts here. Just FYI so you don't have to spend too much energy explaning how the game works.
Edit:
> Moreover, it will be possible to "teach" the computer to "experience that" just like humans experience it now. Because how we think about the world is a product of what we learn and the physical inputs we become while growing and living. As our thinking is effectively just a result of 1) processing of the information we get 2) the internal state of our body and 3) external inputs; eventually we will be able to construct a machine that will be able to process enough information, to the point of "thinking" in the same symbols (language) as we do, which has big enough internal state (memory) and which has enough of external inputs to behave, for us, surprisingly humane, even to the point of that computer claiming having a "subjective experience" which would also appear to the computer as "unique."
This is not an argument, this is a restatement of what you believe to be true. Yes, if consciousness and subjective experience are emergent phenomena, then we could make such a computer.
Also, when you say "you personally have an illusion of subjective experience as not being an emerging property, just like a traveler across the hot sand would see in the distance what would appear to him as a small lake, only to turn into a hot sand the closer he gets to that point." this is a very strange statement. I thought, up until now, that you were arguing that it was the subjective experience itself that was the illusion, but if I understand you correctly you're claiming that it is my belief in its uniqueness that is the illusion? If that is what you claim, then there is really not much to say to you, because this itself is an unsubstantiated claim. You apparently have a strong belief that everyone who believes consciousness to be a unique phenomenon is being tricked. Maybe you believe this because otherwise your belief that all of existence can be explained by the laws of physics will not be true? You want to believe in a orderly universe that we can wrap our heads around and explain, which is very natural - we humans have problems when things get too complex, but unfortunately it's not a belief that has been validated logically or scientifically. The same goes for your belief that "the gods were also invented by humans and there's nothing mysterious about that too". It's a nice thing to believe, and faith in a higher principle (like the laws of physics) is a precious thing that can help make sense of the world, but we should recognize that it is faith, not a necessary truth reached by rational thought. See this link: http://skepdic.com/wishfulthinking.html
But then later you also say "So is "subjective experience" illusory or not you ask? It exists, just like the mentioned human on the hot sand (or on the hot road) sees "water" in the distance". Now it seems it is the subjective experience itself that is the illusion, not my belief that it is a unique phenomenon. So which is it?
I thank you for all the explanations about Conway's game of life and the philosophical musings (that I emphasize, again, must not be mistaken for rational truth) that you give surrounding it. I have implemented my own (poor) version of this game before, so I am familiar with the concepts here. Just FYI so you don't have to spend too much energy explaning how the game works.
Edit:
> Moreover, it will be possible to "teach" the computer to "experience that" just like humans experience it now. Because how we think about the world is a product of what we learn and the physical inputs we become while growing and living. As our thinking is effectively just a result of 1) processing of the information we get 2) the internal state of our body and 3) external inputs; eventually we will be able to construct a machine that will be able to process enough information, to the point of "thinking" in the same symbols (language) as we do, which has big enough internal state (memory) and which has enough of external inputs to behave, for us, surprisingly humane, even to the point of that computer claiming having a "subjective experience" which would also appear to the computer as "unique."
This is not an argument, this is a restatement of what you believe to be true. Yes, if consciousness and subjective experience are emergent phenomena, then we could make such a computer.