> I add a couple half-hitches to the bowline for extra assurance.
That sounds good, but the thing with that knot is it's not "assurance", it's required, it has a tendency to come undone without it, the free end just works it's way back toward the knot - especially when wet which makes many sailors shun it. Many climbers have also died using this knot without a stopper. The stopper should be considered an integral part of the bowline, there are other bowline variations which also serve this purpose as with your example.
I'm not a sailor but this coming directly from a few sailors experience to me... and from my personal experience, regardless of context, however "well" you tie a bowline, if it doesn't have a stopper or some equivalent variation it has the potential to work it's way loose given enough wiggling. If you want to risk your life with it that's your choice, but i wont climb with you, perhaps in the context of tying down something less important it's not so scary, but try hanging from it a few hundred metres up.
Sorry, but it seems you don't understand how the knot actually works, because if you are arguing that the choking part of the knot might get loose, then I can counter argue that regardless of how big your stopper is, still has "the potential" to go through the chocking part. That's not the case. Here is some data: https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/strongest-sai.... Note that the knot did not fail, the lines did. Also, note the loads they are talking about, >1 tonne.
As a sort of meta, you are not making your point any easier to accept the way you presented it, you start off by stating "it has a tendency to come undone [...]", but then switch to "it has the potential to work it's way loose given enough wiggling".
> if you are arguing that the choking part of the knot might get loose, then I can counter argue that regardless of how big your stopper is, still has "the potential" to go through the chocking part.
This is nuts, are you talking about a different knot?... look at it: https://www.animatedknots.com/bowline-knot part of what makes this so easy to untie is what makes it easy for the end to slip through, the first loop self tightens (which locks the second loop), but also untightens itself when load is released again. you can't fit a full stopper through, but it's intuitive to see how the end can inch it's way through the first loop as the rope is repetitively tensioned and untensioned in different positions like a rachet.
You are referring to a completely different aspect, failure of a _static_ line under constant or instant load in a single position, this is completely different to the potential of a knot to work it's way loose under light or zero load and has more to do with how different choices in knots weaken the rope.
These knots don't work themselves loose at the instant load is applied, they do so before when they have opportunity to wriggle around. When climbing this is the scenario every single time you use it as a safety knot, 90% of the time it's not under load but will be continuously lightly tugged back and forth, sometimes tension will be applied then released over and over, then when you finally load it fully with your weight is merely the point you _realise_ it has failed. My mind is made on this one, I have a lot of first hand experience with this knot in climbing on dynamic lines, i am intuitively familiar with it's behaviour, perhaps in your context of static lines holding down things in one position with relatively constant load it is reliable as is (fair enough), but this does not make it _safe_ for all uses.
You've coaxed me into this massive argument against it like it's some terrible knot, but this is my favourite knot.. keep in mind I am talking about _safety_, where failure of the knot means your death, the basic bowline is a very reliable knot for most uses without a stopper - just not for hanging from deadly heights, for that it has to be more than just 99% reliable, and in that case, all it takes is an extra step... but it doesn't have to be about safety it can apply to anything that is important enough, as I said in my original comment: "make sure you give it a generous safety stopper knot if it's _vital_"
> you start off by stating "it has a tendency to come undone [...]", but then switch to "it has the potential to work it's way loose given enough wiggling".
Not really sure what you are complaining about, this is pretty clear, it has a tendency to come undone... did you imagine it would just untie itself without any movement?
ffs, the video is an example, you really think anyone ties it that loose in practice? are all of your arguments going to be strawmen?
Your link is broken. and if all you are showing is a tightened version it's pointless.
> You definitely do not know how a bowline works
Based on what? your disagreement? you assuming i tie it loose like an example video? I really don't care what you think anymore, i've explained and reasoned in great detail (and i'm far from alone in this reasoning)... but you don't argue against my reasoning, all you do is accuse me of not tying correctly and then don't give specifics, you've never even seen me tie it so it's a massive assumption based purely on "I don't agree", you obviously can't be reasoned with. I've tied this knot probably over 10,000 times, and all of your arguments are very troll like, goodbye.
That sounds good, but the thing with that knot is it's not "assurance", it's required, it has a tendency to come undone without it, the free end just works it's way back toward the knot - especially when wet which makes many sailors shun it. Many climbers have also died using this knot without a stopper. The stopper should be considered an integral part of the bowline, there are other bowline variations which also serve this purpose as with your example.