Not all jobs are the same or similarly enjoyable. E.g. instead of working on CRUD apps for the rest of the life, one might prefer working on a Rust interpreter in Haskell or a Gameboy emulator in Prolog - would be hard to find such 9-to-5 jobs - and after all, one might not want 9-to-5 schedule at all.
In other words - one might want freedom, basically.
As for not helping someone - programming can be recreational, just for the sake of enjoyment.
I guess what the parent was getting at was that if you are an employee at a point of your life when society expects you to be retired, then you will not be able to allocate your free time as you see fit. In other words, working for others past retirement means you never really retire enough to indulge in things you never had time for in your prime, like spending quality time with one’s spouse for instance [0].
I finish projects when they're for work. Or at least, I stay focused.
My own hobby projects are more fulfilling to me, but I often put them aside for long periods - sometimes years - because I don't need to finish them to get pleasure out of
doing them, and it's much harder to stay motivated to finish
the often very boring parts when I don't have to.
But it feels good to finish things up too. I can push myself to do that for side projects,
but the time and energy it takes to get me motivated to do that when I don't have the
external pressure to motivate me is much harder.
If I "retire" I'll probably have to do a startup again to have some of that pressure...
Personally I love programming, among other things that people might regard as similar to programming.
The prospect of just sitting in front of TV and going for walks is horrifying. For short breaks, sure, that's really nice. For years? Horrifying.
Solving technical problems is vastly more satisfying than that.
It's like maths to a mathematician, physics to a physicist. Why would they ever stop, given freedom to carry on?
I would love to be able to retire for the freedom, but with that freedom I would want to build technology, much as I do now except I'd choose the things (and they would be much better things!)
(It might be that the kind of programming you do in your job is a very different thing though. I'm not excited by writing more business forms either. Programming is an extremely broad term these days.)
Yep, the lockdown means I am at home all the time, so I started pulling out hardware to make things, programming the programs that always I was working on in the back of my head and finish writing the fan-fics I have going.
The idea that you only do things because it is your job suggests a limited life, I remember when I was working telling the others about all the trips and cruises I did on my time off. When I asked they what they did on vacation they always went to the same places year after year. I guess that is what they wanted.
Why is it wrong for me (or anyone) to get fulfillment out of their job? Thanks to my partner I do the traveling thing; I visit other countries, sample other cultures, and routinely try new things. I'm not averse to any of it, but I don't understand the appeal, much less (what I read as) the condescending attitude against people who don't do it. Why can't we just "live and let live", without judgement, even if others choose to live differently than ourselves?
> The prospect of just sitting in front of TV and going for walks is horrifying. For short breaks, sure, that's really nice. For years? Horrifying.
Can you acknowledge that solving technical problems for decades is just as horrifying to me? And that watching TV and doing nothing is extremely satisfying to me?
> Can you acknowledge that solving technical problems for decades is just as horrifying to me? And that watching TV and doing nothing is extremely satisfying to me?
Of course, I'm completely happy to acknowledge that!
I know some programmers who were pretty hot, but one day they had enough and never wanted to go back into it. Good for them, hopefully they found something else they enjoyed.
What I was addressing before was:
You seemed to express skepticism that someone else finds programming something they would actually prefer to do, over retiring from the field, unless they are institutionalised or imprisoned, like some kind of sick creature.
So I added myself to the data, along with mathematicians, physicists etc. to support an argument some may relate to, to say it's not that unusual for people to actually love programming or other intellectual activities like that.
I should have included artists and writers. The motivation is a lot like it is for them: It feels innate, like an instinct, it just makes you miserable if you don't pursue it.
I assure you, if you could see the messy diversity in my life, you would not think of me as institutionalised, or particularly structured :-)
I don't think that acknowledgement is necessary. Nobody's distrusting you; it's just… people are different. What applies to you doesn't necessarily apply to other people. If someone's still working years after they got the option to retire, chances are they enjoy it.
I want to start by acknowledging that's a totally legitimate perspective.
I'm curious though - do you think you'd be fine with only doing walks and TV for 40+ hours a week? Personally I got interested in computers and programming very early, and at first it was 100% a leisure activity. It stayed at roughly that level of exciting for me until probably 6 months to a year into being employed as a developer, but it's no longer the #1 thing I like to do when I'm not at work. My current situation is work with a side of typical relaxation (watch tv, browse the internet, etc.), but I expect when I eventually retire I'll start spending a bunch of leisure time on programming and general messing-with-computers stuff again.
I took 3 years off from working (lived frugally off savings) and that is basically all I did. Purposely avoided anything that would be considered “productive work.” I mean I read some books and rode my bicycle, too. But my time was pretty much just watching TV/movies and laying around.
Best time of my life by far.
I cringe when I tell someone about it and they are like, “oh but didn’t that get boring?”
Are you saving up to do it again? I want to do something similar but I find it hard to justify the cost. I also feel like my family would constantly hassle me about it, which seems like it would offset any sort of relaxation or enjoyment I might get from the experience.
Unfortunately I now have a chronic disease that makes constant health insurance a necessity.
Do you mean family like parents/relatives harping from a distance? If so, they’re just jealous and aren’t worth listening to. As long as you’re smart about your money and make a plan to get a job before you’re tapped out, go for it.
I have no problem understanding your preferences and I don't question your choices, except for one: why would you spend time on news.ycombinator? I assume you find it ... fun?
I seem to recall you saying this before, and I assumed it was a joke, since someone who was doing that probably wouldn't say they were doing it, and it would devalue the sold account to leave a comment like that up.
But now users are asking me if this is ok. Obviously it's extremely far from ok, if true, so I need to ask: is it true?
I'm 78. I do the same. I select problems from Codeforces or Codewars and work on those. I did enter contests for awhile but needed more experience to successfully compete.
I learned python a few years ago and have experience with several other languages as well. Python is perfect for someone like myself. To me it is a thing of beauty.
I read a lot - history and biography mainly. Favorites: The Fatal Shore and Empire of the Autumn Moon. Travel 2-3 times a year. Been to Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America as well as all over North America. Favorite place? Singapore.
Walk 2 miles+ a day.
Am a top backgammon player on ZooEscape.
Been married 51 years today and been blessed with 3 great kids.
Not rich but comfortable. Always been a saver or what my sister calls a cheapskate.
Am definitely slowing down. Am more cranky. And think the world is going crazy. Other than that life is better than I expected it would be at this age.
Without a doubt I'd continue programming even if I wasn't working. It's a craft. And like any other craft there are those who enjoy it as a creative outlet.
>I’d just sit in front of the TV and go for walks if that was an option.
Thats fun for the first week. The second week its depressing but you still do it. On the third week you will be picking up hobby projects and working on them just for fun.
Yes, absolutely! Obviously there's other things I enjoy doing as well, but programming by far has the greatest impact on the world around me, and I love seeing the things I help create making other people's lives easier.
And there's nothing wrong with that.