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Annoyingly, I can't find the original report by J.D. Power. Ars Technica has a more detailed summary.[1] Apparently the study favors cars with fewer features, as that means fewer things can go wrong. The results contradict brand stereotypes. Honda and Toyota are below the industry average. Volvo is one of the worst, along with luxury brands such as Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and Land Rover. The best rated are Dodge, Kia, and Chevrolet. Also this survey reflects initial impressions, not long term reliability.

Seriously though: I would pay money for a news organization that always linked to primary sources. Bonus points for archiving them at the time of publication. I don't need a journalist to play Chinese whispers with me.[2] I'm an adult and I can interpret the information for myself.

1. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/06/teslas-are-the-most-unr...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers



> Also this survey reflects initial impressions, not long term reliability.

I also find that a very weird measure, especially when you want to report on the quality of said vehicles. It'd also be interesting to know what kind of problems customers face. A not perfect paint job is annoying, but its certainly not as bad as motor problems in the early beginning. I cannot prove this with numbers from the study, but I'd also assume that, depending on the car the customer buys, he usually has a diffferent idea of what can be considered good quality or not. I know people who were annoyed because the stitches of their drivers seat were off by a bit. On the other hand I know Ford owners that lost buttons on their infotainment unit and just hot-glued them back in. But as you said, just reflecting on the initial impressions of a vehicle doesn't say anything about more important measures like long term reliability, TCO etc. Having a study evaluate the problems a vehicle sees within the first 75.000km would be a lot more interesting and would also allow better conclusions.

However, this study proves the several reports of automotive journalists around the world. Most people considered the Tesla vehicles decently good, but not matching the price tag Tesla puts on them quality wise. During the Model 3 production hell the quality problems became especially apparent with completely misplaced side-panels, the worst paint jobs I've seen on a mass produced vehicle among several other issues.


Well to be honest, I own a model 3, you just have to be a member of the subreddit if not any of the Tesla related sites to know that more than a few people have a nightmarish time with new car delivery. It isn't like these cars loaded with features, I have yet to read anyone having issues with the display and tech as it is always panel alignment and overall fit and finish.

Now if you also read the same you will find the Chinese side of Tesla apparently has an entirely different outcome. Their quality is superb with workers across the plant invested to the point no one wants to embarrass another. So what to do US side? Having had friends and family in the industry where they worked the line you get the same issues you have in any business. There are those who are just there to punch a clock and it is always some other person's job. Please don't try the tired retort of pay, myself and I am sure others here can attest to having worked with people who pay isn't going to fix them.

Well if Tesla cannot insure the people at all stations on the line think otherwise they need to invest heavily on the end of the line and make sure that their delivery centers have no reason to ever have to work on a customer's car. Those employees must be able to fail a car without question. The only acceptable issues at that point would be damage during transit.

I know my next EV will not be a Tesla, they have nothing in their pipeline I want; well let me be honest nothing I should buy but that truck is obnoxious enough to just have; and another fear is they are not concentrating on quality.


It’s always easy to blame the workers but, in the vast majority of cases, poor quality output is a management issue.

Other car manufacturers have managed to create production lines that churn out high quality vehicles every 90 seconds (or better) for decades now. When it comes to these fit & finish issues, panel alignment etc etc there is no excuse for Tesla not being able to reach the same minimal quality bar.


That seems like a reasonable excuse to me. Tesla's only been doing high volume manufacturing for 8 years, and these things take time to build up expertise for. If you buy a Tesla today you should expect you're trading off some fit and finish for their advantages.


No, that sort of continued excusing of the manufacturer is why Tesla, after 8 years of production no less, continues to deliver substandard quality. What pressure is there for them to do otherwise? Tesla accepts this, their customers, only occasionally grumbling, accept this, and their die hard fans go to the mat on social media to insure everyone else accepts this.


It seems very strange to claim that Tesla's sales aren't impacted by their lackluster fit and finish. I only vaguely follow Tesla news and I've heard this complaint a lot.

Even if this were the case, that prospective consumers didn't care about paint quality and panel fit... then what's the problem? Why should Tesla focus on a problem you say nobody cares enough to buy a different car over?


You can buy this expertise off the shelf: you recruit plant managers from the rest of the car industry & give them a free hand. Or alternatively you can put the time into reading some of the many, many publications that have detailed exactly how it’s done. None of it is secret.

Tesla seems to be unable to do any of this.


You don't have to watch more then one YouTube video review of whatever Tesla model to know that there will be more then a few "issues" with a brand new Tesla, that we can all agree on.

We can also say that people who educate themselves on the brand first, go in knowing that there will be inconsistent gaps and possibly other problems as well with their brand new vehicle. Most will want the vehicle regardless and bet on Tesla Service being able to fix the issues at one point or another (ie when Tesla figures out why certain parts are not working as expected and create replacement parts to fix them).

The problem, from an outside perspective, is that Tesla is operating as close to the bone as possible on costs, so the accepted variances in manufacturing are larger than what Ford or Honda would have due to the economics of scale.

I don't want to say that this is necessarily a worker problem, because at the end of the day, when a vehicle rolls off the assembly line, (I'm assuming) Tesla has quality control people to verify the vehicle is meeting their requirements, so these are the people who are either not raising the flags on production, or the variances are "acceptable", which is what I think it tends to be. To create tighter variances usually means slowing down the process, which in turn will reduce the number of vehicles leaving the plant, thus lower sales, etc.

I have no doubt, in years time, Tesla's quality of build will improve. But as a recent video review I saw on a Tesla vehicle said, "if you have OCD, you might not want to buy a Tesla."


Pay doesn’t necessarily fix individual motivation, but it does create significantly more competition, as well as making the job itself more lucrative for the most passionate. (ie, attract and retain better workers)


>myself and I am sure others here can attest to having worked with people who pay isn't going to fix them.

Yes, but I don't blame my coworker, but the boss who hired them when I'm doing more work for the same pay. You're implying what, that Chinese factory workers have a better work ethic than American ones from your empirical review of Reddit formus/Internet, which may not be entirely unbiased.


> I don't need a journalist to play Chinese whispers with me.[2] I'm an adult and I can interpret the information for myself.

I up-voted your comment due to your succinct comment about how newspapers 'hide' their sources. It seems totally unnecessary to me and not how the internet is supposed to work. If every news article linked to the original press release then we would see what a sham it is - a 'Chinese Whispers Game'.

After voting your comment up I then remembered the time I got called out for using the phrase 'Chinese Whispers'. A guy on my team who was ethnic Chinese but with a fully developed sense of British humour had called me out. He wasn't entirely serious but he did ask me why I used the phrase, by which time the penny dropped that he was Chinese and that I was in a spot of bother!

In America they have 'The Telephone Game' which means the same as 'Chinese Whispers'. This is all well and good, a drop-in replacement phrase, however most British people have no idea what the Telephone Game is. Chinese Whispers is a phrase that a British child can understand even if they have never met a Chinese person or played the game before.

There is nothing on your linked Wikipedia page about how the phrase 'Chinese Whispers' might be considered harmful. However, after the one time I was confronted partially in jest about the phrase, I would recommend using the phrase sensitively.


The article contains a large paragraph on how the phrase might be harmful.


Seriously though: I would pay money for a news organization that always linked to primary sources.

FWIW, in my experience, the New York Times almost always links to the original source.


> Volvo is one of the worst,

Newer Volvos (since being acquired by China) have had notoriously bad reliability, and as far as I know, this is established. An anecdote: a couple each purchased a certain Volvo model (same car), one turned out to have severe engine problems, while the other was fine. Turns out that the problematic car was made in China, whereas the other was manufactured in Europe.

Kia and Hyundai have really stepped up their game recently. Excellent value, safe and reliable cars, and very good quality, so I'm not surprised there.


Try https://mondediplo.com/ they have a list of references at the end of the articles




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