aka, equity compensation. Because i sure aint gonna consider it a perk if a CEO (or owners) to get richer, while i just get praise for making the success!
> Peter Gibbons: You see, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't even care.
>Bob Porter: Don't- don't care?
>Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?
Before I started working at MASSIVE CORP I thought Office Space was a comedy.....
When I come to the "I just don't even care" state, I start looking for another job.
I was at a startup company that in my opinion got a great idea and with enough focus, we could have been successful. I always tried to think about the product, the impact, the roadmap, the quality... And after some time I realized that I just annoy the founders and I care and worry more about things then they do. So I decided to care about half as much as they did and in the meantime look for another job.
Today, I work at a big corporation, I was again motivated to be able to change things, improve things. The feature I recently worked on was just put on a roadmap with a ridiculous deadline, our work is blocked by like 5 different backend teams around the country, and somehow I should bend over backwards to deliver on time?
Keeping your motivation is hard when everything around you is trying squash it.
And I am not even sure it's a problem. Of course I wouldn't say this at my next job interview, but in reality, if you are motivated, most often you will get disappointed really fast. On the other hand, when you just go in to work, do a reasonable amount of effort, then you can work better with others with less stress, and in the end, who cares about "those few extra units"?
I somehow understand you. However, I had some time to reflect on this (because I am similar to you, in a way) and the best I got to is: it's just business.
You can be motivated as much as you want, but tomorrow you can be replaced. Your company gets acquired, and you happen to be in the "wrong" office. Bye bye. Or whatever other reason. Covid! Bye bye again.
We are just minions with a good technical knowledge. And if you don't step up and get closer and closer to CTO level you'll be "just" working on features, sporadically "exceeding the goals set" and get rewarded for that. Yay. Get the most out of it and that's it. If that's enough for you, so be it.
Learn, develop, make shit happen, iterate.
Do you want to have a major impact? It takes hours and stress from your own personal life (I couldn't stress this out more), things don't come easily.
If you want to have power you need to be your own boss. And even then I wonder how much power you truly have.
I have worked directly with several CTO/CIOs and one thing stood out. The y kissed my ass but no one kissed theirs. It is a very tenuous position that normally gets replaced when the weather changes. I was being groomed for the spot at a company, riding shotgun with the then-CIO. Weather changed, our CIO was out, I was retained (aggressively so) but my path to C-level was gone just the same.
If it falls in your lap, take it. But don't count on it. Leverage the extra money under the assumption that you're out in three months. It's position formed of a certain mix of competence, pedigree, communication ability, and politics. Tenuous.
> On the other hand, when you just go in to work, do a reasonable amount of effort, then you can work better with others with less stress, and in the end, who cares about "those few extra units"?
That's exactly my MO. The extent to which many people start to overidentify with their job is almost comical. If they are lucky it may actually pay off at least. But more likely than not they are just deferring the inevitable conclusion that work is at the end of the day just a (hopefully enjoyable) waste of time so you can afford living.
Yeah, of course it is. But you also spend a lot of time there, so I don't think it's unreasonable to try to find something you can be proud of delivering.
Sure. As long as you're able to deal with nobody else sharing that pride, expressing gratitude, offer a reward or even notice your feat. Then you're set. If not - you're up for a rude awakening many years later realizing that all those things you were proud of didn't make any actual difference - not even for yourself.
Hm. I'd say that wasn't my experience so far -- plenty of gratitude and recognition. But I kind of wish I would have focused more on things I was actually excited to work on instead of prioritizing stability above everything else.
That said, life is very short. Big companies are a great way to make pretty good comp in exchange for dealing with a ton of dysfunction. I know people who don’t get bothered by it at all - they separate themselves and their 8-10 hours a day and compartmentalize.
If you can’t do that, though ...
The only reason to work for mega corps once you’ve got enough in the way of assets that you are already dialed in for the normal retirement age is because you’re vesting out a package.
are you, or anyone here, aware of a co-operative modeled SV style startup? I think 10yr (or 20 if that's possible) options is a good step towards that model so that you get back compensated for your contributions regardless of how long the investors resist IPO
if it's cooperative, then the workers are themselves the investors, and they would have had to put capital into the company. There's no need for options in that case (since those workers already would own the shares for putting in the capital!).
What you might be referring to is to have workers who _didn't_ put in capital, but still get given long dated options, along with their salary. This is funded by investors. So - the problem here is that there's no downside for the workers. If due to bad luck, they lose out on the value of the options, but still get paid their salary in the mean time, and yet get the upside of the long dated options should the company succeeds. The only people to lose out are the investors - who had to give up some of their shares (as options), for almost zero upside. I dont think it will work - no investor is going to be that sucker.
The John Lewis Partnership[0] in the UK (which owns a chain of department stores[1] and the supermarket chain Waitrose[2]) has more than 80,000 employees and operates like a cooperative.
Technically it's a Public Limited Company (albeit one wholly owned by a trust for the benefit of its employees), but it does run an internal democratic system.
Profits are distributed to employees as bonus, which is a uniform percentage of their salary. 2021 is the first year they won't distribute a bonus (because of Covid), but historically it's been between 5% and 20%.
That’s cool but isn’t it similar to the incentive pay programs or RSUs/ESPPs offered by traditional employers? Not to mention that once the company is large, it’s hard to feel you have that much control over the success of the entire company.
Employees of JL don't own any shares. They cannot be bought or sold or given to employees. 100% of the shares are owned by the Trust.
That also means that every employee effectively has the same stake in the company - those high up in management, for example, don't have a lop-sided number of shares compared to those on the (both literal and metaphorical) shop floor.
JL employees also elect colleagues to hold the management to account, and appoint people to the Board and Trust. How many "traditional employers" allow that to happen?
I don't doubt you can make a large co-op. What I do doubt is that working at a large co-op is much different from working at any other large employer (I guess unless you're on the executive team).
At Mondragon, employees can choose their managers by vote (the corporation is run like a democracy inside), perhaps that can make some difference. I have no experience, therefore no strong opinion on this; sounds good to me, but maybe it introduces its own problems that I wouldn't guess.
I saw it in the theater when it came out and thought it was funny but obvious over-the-too satire. I was at a small company at the time.
About two months ago I decided to watch something and it popped up on the suggested items. I figured what the he’ll and watched it for the second time ever.
I work for a megacorp and have for most of the last decade.
If anything, office space is too subtle. Instead, I realize now that my reality would be so insane as to be considered unrealistic and too exaggerated. Even “Disrupted” doesn’t actually capture the insanity, dysfunction, etc.
I have joked/threatened for a few years that I would write a book about this place but as I compile an outline I keep asking myself if anyone who hadn’t already had the same experience would believe any of it. The mountain of mediocrity, sure, but the intrigues, scheming, backstabbing, insane and systemic incompetence in every domain? No way.
I'd say the motivation is mainly intrinsic. I don't know about you, but I've generally just felt better when I've worked like I care. I've found there to be a correlation between my overall happiness and well-being and the effort that I put into work. This doesn't mean going overboard and working overtime, just to care about what I'm working on.
I suppose the extrinsic motivation would not be noticeable immediately but should be noticeable over time (ie. taking a 10 year view) as you would (hopefully) earn more than peers who just do the minimum to avoid being fired. If you get laid off, I'd guess you'd also have an easier time finding a new job as well.
aka, equity compensation. Because i sure aint gonna consider it a perk if a CEO (or owners) to get richer, while i just get praise for making the success!