FWIW, I agree that 4-5 year old transgender kids are something that strike most people as absurd. That is, unless they know some transgender people and talk to them about their experiences. I have a couple of close friends who are trans, and know several others (including a good friend of my son's in elementary school). All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4. Obviously that's just a second-hand anecdote, but it's enough for me to be confident that it is extremely common for trans people to experience strong gender dysphoria from essentially as soon as they become aware of the concept of their own gender.
There is also research that shows suicide rates for transgender people are far higher than the general population—except for those who receive acceptance for their gender identity from childhood, in which case the difference is drastically reduced. And that's not hard for me to believe. Try imagining yourself in that position. You're a young boy, but for some reason you're in a girl's body. You know that's not right, but no one believes you, and instead they pressure you to act the part of someone you're not, and imply (or outright state) that there's something wrong with you for feeling otherwise. That's got to be a tough life. Contrast that with the same initial condition: you're a boy in a girl's body. But instead your parents and other people you trust understand and tell you that's OK and there are lots of other people experiencing the same thing, and if you're confident you want to live as a boy (or vice-versa the whole thing, obviously) then of course you can do that and they'll help. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.
I really appreciate the substantive comment. I disagree, but I don't think it's worth arguing about here. My point really doesn't have anything to do with the merits or demerits of young childhood gender transitions. Fact is, it's a position held by a minority, but the majority is powerless to do anything about it because they are absolutely terrified of the left's political power. They're afraid to even say something about it. Certain political groups are getting close to completely transcending the liberal democratic truce.
And I appreciate that, especially in the broader context of the article we're commenting on! I agree with your broader point that there are topics in our society where one might be ostracized for expressing or even exploring a view outside a certain consensus, even if it might be one held by many people. And obviously that does make good faith communication difficult. Of course some might say that certain views are so vile they shouldn't be given any consideration. Something like expressing overt racial slurs for instance. And I can see the argument that it's beneficial for society to shun those who express such things. But it can certainly be taken too far, and often is. And the effect is even more pronounced I think within a political coalition than across the spectrum, because there's even more pressure to conform to the consensus view.
I realize the gender transition thing was beside your main point; you just seemed like a reasonable person with a differing view who might be open to my perspective there. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind based on an anecdote from a random stranger, but I hope you'll keep it in mind. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to your other example: trans athletes are a difficult issue IMO. In general I wouldn't want transgender people to be deprived of any of the rights anyone else of the same gender would have. I think bathroom bans are ridiculous and cruel for instance. But in the context of sport, there is also a legitimate concern regarding fairness for other athletes. I honestly don't know what the best outcome is there, but I do think it's something reasonable people should be able to discuss without being vilified.
> All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4
Did you? I don’t recall “knowing” my truer gender from age 4. That’s something that I took years to grow into, and didn’t become a question at the fore of my mind until teenage years.
I meant as much as we know ours now, not at age 4. I don't recall what or whether I thought about gender at all at that age. But I don't remember ever really thinking about my gender except in the context of conversations around gender topics like this one. Presumably for cisgender folks there's not normally any motivation to do so, any more than you'd spend time specifically thinking about other aspects of your person. But I can see how one would be much more likely to think about it if the gender they experience doesn't match their physical body and how others perceive them. And I've spoken to enough people with very similar experiences that I have no reason to doubt them.
And I guess that's what I don't understand about those who find transgender kids implausible. From what I can tell, the vast majority of transgender people will tell you they became aware of it in early childhood. Why would they lie? I can't come up with a speculation that doesn't sound like an absurd straw man.
* "We" had a weak sense of our true gender at age 4
* "We" have a strong sense of our true gender now
* Transgender people had a strong sense of their true gender at age 4
> From what I can tell, the vast majority of transgender people will tell you they became aware of it in early childhood. Why would they lie? I can't come up with a speculation that doesn't sound like an absurd straw man.
I think it would strengthen your argument if everyone who had a strong sense of being transgender at age 4 maintained that sense into adulthood. I don't know how one would find that out though.
Ah, is that the main point of disagreement? People are thinking back to their own experience of gender at that age, and then expecting it to be the same for trans kids. I think, as I mentioned, a logical explanation for that is that cis people don't have any reason to think about it. Or at least didn't when we were kids. I've asked my kids, and they're both confident in their gender at a young age.
Ah, gotcha. I bet there's something to that though. It seems natural that having a very strong sense of gender at age 4 would appear ridiculous to most people given that it doesn't fit with their own experience. I do expect over time mainstream opinion on this will shift much as it has for homosexuality. Likewise there I think it was initially difficult for straight people to relate, because it just didn't fit with their own experience at all—sexual attraction is something for people of the opposite sex; if you think you're attracted to people of the same sex, that doesn't make sense, so something must have happened to you. Over time, more and more gay people were out, more people came to realize that they knew gay people, and those people truly did experience what they said they experienced, and mainstream belief shifted.
Per the original comment here though, I hope it doesn't happen by one 'side' winning and beating the other into submission, but rather through that process of understanding.
There is also research that shows suicide rates for transgender people are far higher than the general population—except for those who receive acceptance for their gender identity from childhood, in which case the difference is drastically reduced. And that's not hard for me to believe. Try imagining yourself in that position. You're a young boy, but for some reason you're in a girl's body. You know that's not right, but no one believes you, and instead they pressure you to act the part of someone you're not, and imply (or outright state) that there's something wrong with you for feeling otherwise. That's got to be a tough life. Contrast that with the same initial condition: you're a boy in a girl's body. But instead your parents and other people you trust understand and tell you that's OK and there are lots of other people experiencing the same thing, and if you're confident you want to live as a boy (or vice-versa the whole thing, obviously) then of course you can do that and they'll help. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.