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I think it cliche to believe it's strictly a financial decision. In fact, in the West (afaik) the middle and upper class have a lower birth rates than those below them.

Not to get subjective and fuzzy but children are a symbol of hope and promise. Any reasonable adult who is considering children has to ask themselve how to answer when the child asks, "Why? Why did you bring me into *this* world?"

Who has a good answer for that at this point?



> "Why? Why did you bring me into this world?"

"This world as in the safest and wealthiest world we've ever known? Son, for as long as humanity has existed, we've mastered all the challenges that have been thrown at us. Challenges much worse than the ones we are currently facing, be they environmental, societal or other. You'll find your place in this world and make the best of it."

Of course he'd be an angsty teenager asking that question, so I don't think it'd get through to him for the time being. I'd get him Marcus Aurelius' Meditations for his birthday.


Son? What?? That aside...

We are human. By definition, we are not rational. We are emotional beings. That's the way it is. That's The Science.

Furthermore, we all know the saying: Past performance is no indication of future returns.

As for the wealth of the world. Much like the future, it's unevenly distributed; and getting more and more imbalanced. Yes, extreme poverty has been reduced. But in The West, so has the middle class.

We can pitch the "we're all better off" all we want. But we're all selfish. It's ultimately about us. And if I don't feel secure about the future then in my world that future isn't secure.


>Who has a good answer for that at this point?

There likely isn't a satisfactory answer for everyone but I consider our job (as a whole) to move the human civilization forward. Every person can help take the one small step they can and it may not even be in the direction we intended it to be. My job as a parent is to provide the nurturing environment for my son to develop that sense of self and direction so he can find his purpose.

So while I work to make the better place for my son to live in, I can't solve all the problems we face. It is up to people collectively to overcome those burdens and the trip we make along the way is part of it.

For all the grief, hardship and depression we see in the world, Joy, Love and Happiness still exists to be found and I'm doing my best to let my son find the latter while trying to shelter him from much of the former.


Considering that it's the poorer people having more children it seems like the obvious answer is that most children are unplanned or the product of dim people with a figure it out later attitude.


> the product of dim people with a figure it out later attitude

I wonder how many of the "figure it out later" attitude people overlap the "absolute faith in higher power" people? Poorer people possibly have more subscribers to religious faith?

A decline in the religious population, that comforted themselves with wellbeing of their offspring being a matter of prayer and ritual and whatnot, has had some impact on peoples' outlook in this matter?


I think that narrative itself is fairly dim.

Consider a much more reasonable alternative - Having children can be seen as a path to traditional success by those who have very limited financial options.

By having a child - they gain a sense of purpose that is just utterly absent in most of our menial jobs. Further - Most people enjoy many aspects of their childhood, and having a child is a chance to pass on that joy and relive it.

Finally - additional children can bring additional revenue and help on the long term. If you know you have no job security, no money for savings, no pension, no 401k, and a low social security payout due to low earnings - children can be a way to have some semblance of retirement, and a safety net in old age.

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Is there some overlap where it's also a consequence on not thinking through your decisions? Sure - probably. But that answer is simplistic.

For every complex question there's an answer that's short, simple, and wrong.


It's not really figure it out later. They have reasons like they will take care in the old age. If all of my peers can why can't I etc. Also, it's more of modern concept to actively not have children, which is not really permeated to all economic groups.

Atleast in India.

In other news, Lalu Prasad Yadav's daughter gave her one kidney to him yesterday. Where point 1 literally panned out.


I believe it’s hope relative to your personal circumstance that drives hopes for the next generation.

Do I think the next generation will have a better life than I had?

That’s easier to answer yes to if you started with little because the baseline is low.

For the squeezed middle in countries that have stopped developing? Probably not given the current trajectory


My answer is that people brought other people into the world after the black plague, after world war 2, after Hiroshima, and I'm personally very happy they did.

The world has a lot of issues for sure, but it used to be much much worse, and despite many issues left and appearing constantly, I think we're still going in the right general direction.

There are challenges and obstacles today, there surely will be some in the future, but I'm sure we will prevail, and I for one am happy to be there and want to give this opportunity to someone else.


I used to think like that, but not anymore. The parents must not answer this question. They must not even attempt to do it. It's up to the children, who have their whole lives before them, to look for an answer. And that's the whole point.


Yes, and the children who have grown are answering "I won't do that to another generation".


isnt it U-shaped? after a certain level of wealth i think the rate goes back up?




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