Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Approximately the same is true of sprawling suburbs. Sprawling suburbs are uneconomical; tax revenue is unable to cover the costs of maintenance. The result is that state and even federal money is needed to subsidize the costs[0]. Not sustainable.

Urban planning is not in good shape and hasn't been since about the 1950s. Worse, the postwar American model has been exported around the world which means these bad practices have been copied elsewhere. Still worse, urban planning decisions are effectively permanent. This is very apparent when you look at old European cities where buildings might have changed, but the layout of roads is either the same or agrees with the contours of previous structures, boundaries of what used to be parcels of farm land, etc.

[0] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/28/the-growth-pon...



I generally like strongtowns attitude and articles, but a lot of their detailed calculations about the cost of suburbs being unsustainable focus on sidewalk maintenance costs. One example:

https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/articles/13529213...


Strong Towns makes a compelling case but until (unless?) suburbs truly start bankrupting in the way they describe, and in a way that hurts residents, I kind of think they are preaching to the choir.

Like if they are right but central state / city governments just increase subsidization, maybe that’s just what people want. Despite the fact that I don’t like it myself.


> Sprawling suburbs are uneconomical

That is not what your linked article says. The article says is that US cities have not charged, and are not charging, enough property taxes: because of $reasons. If cities were to charge costs correctly, which must happen eventually, then suburbs are economical.

It is really difficult to compare like with like when it comes to property taxes in different countries. Costs, percentages, house valuations, plus other confounding factors mean we need to take all numbers as indicators only. But let’s compare Kansas City with Christchurch, New Zealand.

KANSAS CITY

[2021] The median property tax in Kansas is $1,625.00 per year for a home worth the median value of $125,500.00. Counties in Kansas collect an average of 1.29% of a property's assesed fair market value as property tax per year. Kansas is ranked number twenty six out of the fifty states, in order of the average amount of property taxes collected.

1625 / 76000 = 2.1% of median household gross income on property taxes[1].

Kansas City, MO's Taxpayer debt is -$8,700[2]. That doesn’t seem outrageous compared with household values and household mortgages.

CHRISTCHURCH

Suburbs pay for themselves in Christchurch, when they are built, and for their ongoing maintenance upkeep.

In 2021 average residential rates (property tax) nationwide [NZD]2,572. That’s about USD1750.

Christchurch is a city with significant and increasing urban sprawl. “Christchurch City Council continues to have the highest liabilities (debt) per household compared to any other council ([NZD]30,096)” with median property price in 2021 of [NZD]650,000 (I am guessing - rose significantly during the year). All new suburban developments in Christchurch have front loaded costs to pay for the extra infrastructure - the city does not subsidise infrastructure. Property taxes in Christchurch are about 5% of household gross income.

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSKSA646N

[2] https://www.data-z.org/state_data_and_comparisons/city/kansa...

PS: Strong Towns is epically biased against suburbs - using them as a reference is taking a ridiculously partisan position.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: