I worked as a busser and at multiple fast food places before getting a job as a software engineer. I have also been reprimanded for going to urinate at unscheduled times. I don’t think that gatekeeping the experience of being exploited for your labor is useful. Creating divisions between people who are only exploited, vs those who are exploited even more doesn’t help anyone except for those who are exploiting.
This subthread starting off with a claim that high-wage workers were the most exploited. I don’t think there’s a vision of “solidarity” where everyone humors that delusion.
The top comment is this sub thread very clearly included the words “even” to imply that while most would not assume software engineers are not exploited because they’re relatively wealthy, they are still being exploited. This very clearly implies that SEs are less exploited—there was absolutely nothing in the original comment that supports your mischaracterization of their point.
That is, other than the second of its two sentences, which reads “In fact, I think that sometimes, companies consider high pay, a license to humiliate.” What do you suggest that means? It seems to me that if high pay is a “license to humiliate” that means that highly-paid workers are due for extra humiliation.
> What do you suggest that means? It seems to me that if high pay is a “license to humiliate” that means that highly-paid workers are due for extra humiliation.
Approximately everyone is aware that low-paid service and agricultural workers get -figuratively- shit on.
As someone who was not in the industry, I expected workers who were paid $120k, $250k, $500k, and more, per year to be treated as people who are highly knowledgeable in their field - to have their opinions carefully considered, and to be treated with respect. In short, to be treated as the Key Employees that their employment contracts often asserted (and their paychecks certainly suggested) that they are.
I was very surprised (and very disappointed) when I discovered that there are managers and businessmen who have opinions that can be roughly summed up as "I'm paying you a lot of money, so you work on whatever I say, do the work however I say to do it, and you take whatever shit I dish out without complaining. You are -after all- taking a _ton_ of my (or our company's) money, so you have no room to complain."
I completely agree with this, but fundamentally I think that there is more value from identifying with the similarities between workers of all wage range. I was mainly just arguing against the point that the top reply in this sub thread was implying that high wage workers are somehow more exploited.
It's not the work itself that's undignified, it's having to work. The only way to maintain your dignity is to have enough fuck you money to tell anyone who would strip you of it to fuck off.
Hard disagree. Being able to go pee when you need to, or a checker having a stool to sit on instead of standing still on concrete all day, or having a boss that offers an encouraging word after an insane customer yells at you because the computer isn't working instead of also treating you like the source of the problem. Things like these bring dignity, and would enable people to work while still having dignity.
Of course. What can people do about it though? If you don't have enough leverage, you'll have to swallow it when a bunch of managers start shitting on you because you went to the bathroom.
That leverage can come from many sources. Maybe you have enough money that you don't actually need to be there. Maybe you're unionized and if they screw with you the union can screw them back. It doesn't matter what it is, you need some power to be able to get them to treat you with respect. Corporations are constantly trying to minimize our power, we should maximize it at all costs.
Amassing enough money to become financially independent is the only surefire way to obtain that power. Everything else depends on others. Unions are rife with politicking and corruption, for example. They can also be busted down or coopted.
However, since being forced into retirement (a highly undignified and humiliating process), I have found that I never want to go back to that again. I work at my own pace (about triple what I did, when getting paid), and don't take one ounce of crap, from anyone.
When I was a manager, I always strove to treat my team with extreme dignity. My managers were not as willing to do that, for me, however.
I once got a below average performance review paired with an above average raise, to which I told my boss that he could call me ugly if it came with money like that. I will say that it helped a lot that I really liked him and he wasn't all that thrilled with the company review process either and was apologetic about it.
There's no such thing as enough money to me. I'm always one cancer diagnosis away from being destitute. I need millions and millions and millions before I'd be comfortable not prioritizing money. Nothing else matters nearly as much as money. Love? Fuck that. Love doesn't pay bills.
You see, I'm a criminal. I've committed the felony of getting old, so I am not supposed to work in tech, anymore (at least, not as an IC).
I probably could have gotten a job as a manager. I was a very good manager.
But I hated it. I just wanted to be a coder (and architect -I'm pretty good at that, as well).
I wasn't given the opportunity. In fact, it seemed as if some folks used the interview process to scratch itches they had, with their own parents.
After a few of these "interviews," I realized that this industry no longer had any room for me, and came to understand that, although I was not rich, I did have the means to walk away.
I spent my life, living humbly, frugally, and modestly. Many folks on this forum would sneer at me, for living the way that I do (but they can no longer sneer from a position of power). I have to be a caregiver to a couple of family members, and being forced to retire, actually coincided with them needing more care, so it has worked out.
From my understanding (I suspect that not too many of them are on this forum, so you may not get an answer), the service position jobs aren't so low-paying, and many are actually good career positions.
Anecdotally, I have a couple of friends that basically have to be "professional shoppers," once or twice a year. It seems like a dream job, going to Europe, and buying the top-of-the-line clothes, from shops in every country, but it seems to actually be quite difficult for them.
In any case, they have been doing this for decades, and I have been told that they regularly see the same sales associates, cashiers, and managers, at these stores, year after year. They have actually made some long-term friendships, and look forward to meeting these people, who have families, kids in college, etc.
I assume that this means that many folks can actually make lifetime careers from work that, in the US, is often considered "transitional."
> The life of the American worker is inherently undignified
This is true, and even goes for highly-paid, high-status gigs. In fact, I think that sometimes, companies consider high pay, a license to humiliate.