> it's straight up poison save for extremely moderate quantities that almost nobody settles for when having a drink.
Prove that. I would bet you $100 right now that there is a "silent majority" (even though I dislike the term) that has no problem whatsoever with keeping their drinking under control and to reasonable levels. I am among them - I keep it to a single drink and can go weeks with them in my fridge without taking a swig.
You assume that alcohol is the problem; whereas often, even though I could be wrong; excess drinking is more often a symptom of other problems (stress, anxiety, depression, social pressure, etc.) Getting rid of symptoms does not heal the problem.
Edit for @AtlasLion ("posting too fast - please slow down"): I'm at the point where, at my levels, I feel that it is alarmism. I get that drinking alcohol is never risk-free, but by the same logic, standing outside under a tree is never risk-free. A car ride is never risk-free. Using a cell phone in public is never risk-free. Meeting a stranger is not risk-free. Taking a vaccine is not risk-free. Getting married is certainly not risk-free. It's that kind of risk in my mind.
> I keep it to a single drink and can go weeks with them in my fridge without taking a swig.
Are you me? But really, in my experience, (and I’m nearly double the legal drinking age) we are the minority. When I was college age (even though I didn’t do the standard US 4 year stint, but was adjacent to it and all the fraternity etc shenanigans that come with it) it was about rage bingeing. Now amongst my professional friends and colleagues, some of whom are parents, I am the _only_ one either not drinking or stopping after just one. I prefer driving myself everywhere because inevitably someone wants another round when I want to get back to my kids before bedtime, or we’re on the way home from a remote trip and I don’t want to ride with someone that’s already sloshed and wants to bring a “road soda” with them. I kind of dread work trips because while I do like many of my colleagues, there is way too much alcohol consumption, like, late nights every night for a week straight.
People become skilled at hiding their inebriated state, and like pathological liars, believe themselves that they “aren’t that drunk”.
I do hope it’s just the bubble I grew up in because I want to think there’s a pathway to teaching my kids there is a responsible way to enjoy it without making it a competition, identity or escape. But it’s hard for me to believe my experience is very far outside the norm.
> excess drinking is more often a symptom of other problems (stress, anxiety, depression, social pressure, etc.)
I believe it.
> Getting rid of symptoms does not heal the problem.
Looking the other way while people are actively hurting themselves with the wrong medication or dose doesn’t help either.
I’m not saying we need a teetotaling prohibition. But I actually am grateful that there is a two drink limit at the breweries where I live (even if it was installed for the wrong reasons) because it cuts down on the bs I described above.
Like many things I’m sure it comes down to education, not to mention other cultural things like religion and puritanism, paired with youthful rebellion breeding dysfunctional coming of age.
And finally, like with anything else it’s the dose that makes the poison, and not a binary question of allowed or banned, but where a sensible limit can be found.
In my experience alcoholics and drunkards are a very small minority - as in I don't know anybody. Zero, and I'm not a mormon. So shall we forbid it your way or let it just be my way? That's why there are official statistics (NIH, NHS, or whatever every country calls them), to use them and not rely on some person own agenda. And instead of recommending a rehash of a failed policy (prohibition, war on drugs, etc) we should rather recommend treatment for those needing it. Or is this the same discussion as with the US public healthcare, where we would implement anything else than actually solving problems for those with problems?
I don't want to reveal my age on Hacker News, but I'll just say that I reached the legal drinking age within the last five years, and have never had any issues with alcoholism. I have no idea what a hangover feels like (or have ever had trouble standing) despite my primary drink of choice being whiskey (80 proof, give or take). Even if we may appear to be Unicorns...
> I do hope it’s just the bubble I grew up in because I want to think there’s a pathway to teaching my kids there is a responsible way to enjoy it without making it a competition, identity or escape. But it’s hard for me to believe my experience is very far outside the norm.
That is sad. I would hope that the "Squeaky wheel gets the grease" analogy applies here, but I'm not sure. The NIH seems hopeful even if the numbers are still bad: "In 2018, two-thirds of adults aged 18 and over consumed alcohol in the past year. In 2018, 5.1% of adults engaged in heavy drinking in the past year, 15.5% engaged in moderate drinking, 45.7% engaged in light drinking, and 33.7% did not consume alcohol." 5.1% is still a lot of people, but it shows that the heavy drinkers are about... 8% of all drinkers.
However, the negative view would be that 1 in 7 people in my home state (Minnesota) has had a DWI on their record at some point. DWI does not strictly speaking require 0.08% or even alcohol specifically though. The average first-time intoxication level is 0.148%, repeat offenders 0.166%, which takes... a lot of drinks. If I was a 100-lb woman, that would take about three to hit. But for me, that would take more like... six or seven. Which I freely admit does make my struggle lower than others - my weight makes the intoxication level from one or two drinks very small compared to others.
> Looking the other way while people are actively hurting themselves with the wrong medication or dose doesn’t help either.
I personally wish that our Age ID system was expanded so that there was a hashed database of driver's licenses not permitted to purchase alcohol or who could only purchase small amounts, that a court (or a voluntary listing) could add a person to. The hashed list would then be downloaded for offline use weekly by breweries and alcohol stores. If a person's ID went through the hashing algorithm and matched a hash on the list, the sale would be denied or restricted (to say, one drink). This would not put any impositions on people who do not struggle with drinking, would not harm anonymity or privacy, but would assist with self-control for those who need it or are interested.
This is especially important because 10% of Americans (or, about 14% of the drinking population) buys 60% of the alcohol.
Alcohol literally breaks down into Acetaldehyde.
Acetaldehyde causes DNA damage, cancer, liver damage.
Yes, there are other causes of alcohol addiction (stress, anxiety, etc..). But also Alcohol changes our response to those underlying symptoms, that can then become the problem. ( I start drinking to reduce stress -> alcohol causes a physical reaction in the mind/body to increase stress -> I drink more alcohol to reduce more stress).
Ditto. My wife and I like Ales and Ciders etc. and we will periodically buy some. I love Gin and use it in hot teas and what not.
But like my wife has had a bottle of a beer she loves in the fridge door For pushing 6 months now untouched. We have a bottle of cider we both love from gatlinburg that’s been in there for over a month, opened.
I’ll routinely have a bottle of gin take me several years to finish. Sit in the freezer for 2-3 years as I randomly put a dash in a tea.
This all or nothing mindset is bs. If an individual has problems with addiction and self control then definitely do the all or nothing.
Prove that. I would bet you $100 right now that there is a "silent majority" (even though I dislike the term) that has no problem whatsoever with keeping their drinking under control and to reasonable levels. I am among them - I keep it to a single drink and can go weeks with them in my fridge without taking a swig.
You assume that alcohol is the problem; whereas often, even though I could be wrong; excess drinking is more often a symptom of other problems (stress, anxiety, depression, social pressure, etc.) Getting rid of symptoms does not heal the problem.
Edit for @AtlasLion ("posting too fast - please slow down"): I'm at the point where, at my levels, I feel that it is alarmism. I get that drinking alcohol is never risk-free, but by the same logic, standing outside under a tree is never risk-free. A car ride is never risk-free. Using a cell phone in public is never risk-free. Meeting a stranger is not risk-free. Taking a vaccine is not risk-free. Getting married is certainly not risk-free. It's that kind of risk in my mind.