No, you said third party and meant Discord, falsely presuming Discord stores the content of your private conversations in an accessible way, and in this context in a way that makes it… harder? To publish as documentation (you know, the original topic).
And since you’ve apparently never joined an IRC channel before, you don’t get any history of the channel at all, you only get the messages that are sent while you’re in there, and IRC servers don’t log every message to some file. If you knew how these servers worked you’d know how that wouldn’t work very well.
> falsely presuming Discord stores the content of your private conversations in an accessible way
What do you mean presuming? I can log in from anywhere and access them, and they're not encrypted with any key I'm the controller of.
> and in this context in a way that makes it… harder? To publish as documentation (you know, the original topic)
You can't add a bot to an existing direct chat. You can only make new group chats. So you can't export it with a bot. So bots can't solve everything.
> And since you’ve apparently never joined an IRC channel before, you don’t get any history of the channel at all, you only get the messages that are sent while you’re in there, and IRC servers don’t log every message to some file.
Sure? But I didn't say you got history on IRC.
Being a bot is neither necessary nor sufficient for getting every message. The real requirement is staying connected constantly, which is a completely separate issue.
> If you knew how these servers worked you’d know how that wouldn’t work very well.
It's not 1993 anymore, it would work fine. It's a good chunk of the IRCv3 efforts.
Private conversations are completely irrelevant to this discussion, so not sure why you keep bringing them up.
And you did say IRC logged without bots, which it doesn't. You were wrong.
And a bot would stay connected to get every message, regardless of the year, and no a "good chunk" of IRCv3 efforts aren't around server logging, that's hilariously incorrect and just shows you're randomly saying shit to try and be right.
> Private conversations are completely irrelevant to this discussion, so not sure why you keep bringing them up.
You said "Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about, both on IRC and Discord." to someone that was talking about Discord being bad at logging in general, which to me would include private conversations.
> And you did say IRC logged without bots, which it doesn't. You were wrong.
I said you can log it without bots. Every standalone client I have ever used did it by default.
A client can stay connected all the time. A bot may or may not stay connected all the time. You should not conflate the two.
On Discord you need a special bot account to log without breaking the ToS. On IRC you not only don't need a bot account, you can just connect your normal client and be done.
> and no a "good chunk" of IRCv3 efforts aren't around server logging, that's hilariously incorrect and just shows you're randomly saying shit to try and be right.
Specifically I was saying that in response to "you only get the messages that are sent while you’re in there".
I'd call this a good chunk. Every time I've seen someone list the features of IRCv3, servers buffering messages to send channel history to clients is one of the features they mention.
The client is the “bot” , which you know and are intentionally being obtuse.
And your links aren’t in any way suggesting the server logs messages, please try again.
But none of this is relevant to the original point that you can 100% obtain equal or better outcomes using Discord in all cases for conversation persistence. Complaining about Discord as a replacement to IRC is ignorant and pointless.
The biggest problem with discord bots is that you need a completely different kind of account to have a bot, and even worse that account can't join servers normally. You're not allowed to run a logger on your own personal account.
Because of that, IRC gives better results in many scenarios. Discord is not equal or better in all cases. If I don't set up a special arrangement with the moderators or break the ToS, all my channel messages are vulnerable to being deleted forever on a moment's notice. And if I get locked out of my account I lose all past private messages.
Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects.
And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want.
Discord is superior or equal to IRC in every meaningful way here.
> Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects.
The difficult part isn't writing it. It's getting in a situation to use it.
> And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want.
You seem confused. The very first complaint in the big post you responded to with "Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about" was this:
"1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever."
It's not just about servers you're running. It's also any channel/message you join.
Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way.
You could use a bot to push everything to a persistent, searchable location, and as a corporation this would be braindead easy. Obviously you wouldn't want to push private convos, so your continued reference to them isn't relevant at all, and your concerns about how "hard" it would be to add a bot to the server to do this is moot considering you control the server in question.
Why would you be banned from the server? Why would you ban yourself? Why would Discord ban you? Why and how would Discord banning you remove your ability to write a bot that pushes your content out to a storage place you control?
You keep trying to find a way to be right, but you keep stumbling.
> Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way.
No, I just double checked all the way back to the start of this thread, that's not right.
People made very general complaints, and you said bots solve all their problems. You also said that Discord matches or beats IRC in all situations.
I agree that discord bots will solve that particular problem.
General logging was in the specific list of problems. Servers you're not in control of were an explicit part of point number 1.
Bots can possibly solve the issue of "I need to get logs of arbitrary channels I'm in", but discord in particular makes it difficult in a way that IRC does not.
Discord is in some ways much worse than IRC for logging.
It's also better in some ways. But there are important differences in each direction.
Discord could largely solve this with a ToS change. But until that happens, it's a problem.
I mean maybe you thought I meant "third party to discord" when I actually meant "third party to the conversation".
But there's no way you actually think you need a bot to log an IRC channel.