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I consider Kubernetes to be an excellent framework to build these kinds of applications. The difference here is Gitpod being stateful, which is notoriously hard on Kubernetes, though easier now than ever before!

To clarify on one of your points, Kubernetes itself has nothing to do with actually setting the security boundaries. It only providers a schema to describe resources and policies, and then an underlying system (perhaps Cilium for networking, or Kata Containers for micro VMs) can ensure that the resources created actually follow those schemas and policies.

For example, Neon have built https://github.com/neondatabase/autoscaling which manages Neon Instances with Kubernetes by running them with QEMU instead. This allows them to do live migrations and resource (de)allocation while the service is running, without having to replace Kubernetes. These workloads are, as far as I understand it, stateless.



> The difference here is Gitpod being stateful, which is notoriously hard on Kubernetes, though easier now than ever before!

We've always had issues with stateful kubernetes setups. Can you share what makes it easier today than before? Genuinely interested.


You make an excellent point, and it emphasizes the need to distinguish between a typical Kubernetes setup (containers, pod/service mesh, and so on), and what Kubernetes can do in the abstract. In the extreme, the API server is just an HTTP interface for a KV store with a bit of RBAC and validation-mutation extensions.

What Neon is doing is quite a feat: Live migration (of a VM) while preserving TCP connections. It also took a lot of customization to achieve that.

But I agree that Kubernetes can indeed be used this way.

If anything, it further cements my original point about the Gitpod leadership.

The problem was never Kubernetes, but the dimwitted notion of using containers.

And then blaming Kubernetes for it: We're leaving you.




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