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You can’t give someone only two options, one less bad, then claim there was a free choice made.


Yes, getting into prison after you committed a crime and were condemned for it, is usually not a free choice.


Totally agree. Once you are in prison, choosing to work or not is a free choice.


Thirteenth Amendment, Section 1:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”


In the context of firefighting, my understanding it is entirely voluntary and selective as well


> Once you are in prison, choosing to work or not is a free choice.

It is literally not in California (though which work, within bounds that differ by prisoner, may be), and California this year defeated a ballot proposition which would have made your claim true.


The free choice is to whether commit or not the crime that puts you in prison. After that, until you pay your debt to society, the free choices are over.


Sure you can. That is every choice in life.


When you're put in prison, your "freedom is taken". We use that language for a reason. It's what happens, it's intentional, and I used to think everyone understood what it meant. Choices in prison are not the same as "every choice in life".


I don't disagree with what you said, but I don't think that supports the conclusion above.

Trade-offs are different in all sorts of situations. All choices in life have consequence. The fact that one is better than the other does not negate anything or create slavery


So nothing can be slavery if there's any choice at all? By that logic slavery can never exist, because any slave can chose not to work and be killed, kill themselves, run, etc.

At some point you have to draw a line and say, there is choice, but there's not enough choice to say it's not slavery.


Sure. I think for the case of firefighting, where there is no punishment or consequences whatsoever, it is an easy call.




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