> You seem to agree that these are in fact historically documented antisemitic tropes(i.e. used by the Nazis), you appear to be saying their use is justified...that's a rather different argument.
No, I'm saying that the nazis also ate apples, but that doesn't mean eating apples is antisemitic. Just because the nazis accused the Jewish people of being the root of all evil doesn't mean that saying evil is bad is antisemitic, if you're not accusing the Jewish people of being the root of this evil. Yes, even if you're accusing a particular group of Jewish people, such as the Israeli state, of doing this.
> There's no clear original aggressor here as it largely depends on how far you look back in history
This is actually very simple. The historic region of Palestine has been inhabited by more or less the same people ever since Biblical times. It was conquered a few times by various empires, and a large part of the population has converted to various religions (from pre-Biblical religions to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam). The languages they speak have changed various times, and of course the genetic makeup of the population has not been constant, especially given it's a relatively common trade route.
Then, starting with the 1930s or so, a colonization effort by an initially fringe group of Jewish zealots, the Zionist movement; they became much more mainstream after the horrors of the Holocaust. This colonization effort culminated with the proclamation of the state of Israel as a "Jewish and Democratic" state in 1948, led mostly by the colonists who started to expel the local population from the region, with the assent of the British Empire, the USA , and even the USSR (and other European powers). This is the beginning point of the current conflict. Going back further in history is completely absurd: the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jewish people, of ancient Romans, of ancient Arabic tribes and so on - just as much if not more so than the Jewish people "returning home".
> This is actually very simple. The historic region of Palestine has been inhabited by more or less the same people ever since Biblical times. It was conquered a few times by various empires, and a large part of the population has converted to various religions (from pre-Biblical religions to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam). The languages they speak have changed various times, and of course the genetic makeup of the population has not been constant, especially given it's a relatively common trade route.
There have been many rather significant demographic shifts since biblical times[0] including migration waves of Egyptians during the Ottoman period. The genetic makeup of the population changing would be something one would expect to result from things like population movements into and out of the region, so I'm not sure what you mean by "The historic region of Palestine has been inhabited by more or less the same people ever since Biblical times." if there have been significant changes since Biblical times.
> Then, starting with the 1930s or so, a colonization effort by an initially fringe group of Jewish zealots, the Zionist movement; they became much more mainstream after the horrors of the Holocaust.
That didn't just start in the 1930s[1].
> This colonization effort culminated with the proclamation of the state of Israel as a "Jewish and Democratic" state in 1948, led mostly by the colonists who started to expel the local population from the region, with the assent of the British Empire, the USA , and even the USSR (and other European powers). This is the beginning point of the current conflict. Going back further in history is completely absurd: the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jewish people, of ancient Romans, of ancient Arabic tribes and so on - just as much if not more so than the Jewish people "returning home".
The origins of the current conflict arguably started in the 1800s, however Jews occupied the region prior to that period as well in smaller numbers.
Regardless of the history most Israelis living in Israel were born in Israel and hold no other citizenship so one can't really expect them to leave their country at this point.
No, I'm saying that the nazis also ate apples, but that doesn't mean eating apples is antisemitic. Just because the nazis accused the Jewish people of being the root of all evil doesn't mean that saying evil is bad is antisemitic, if you're not accusing the Jewish people of being the root of this evil. Yes, even if you're accusing a particular group of Jewish people, such as the Israeli state, of doing this.
> There's no clear original aggressor here as it largely depends on how far you look back in history
This is actually very simple. The historic region of Palestine has been inhabited by more or less the same people ever since Biblical times. It was conquered a few times by various empires, and a large part of the population has converted to various religions (from pre-Biblical religions to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam). The languages they speak have changed various times, and of course the genetic makeup of the population has not been constant, especially given it's a relatively common trade route.
Then, starting with the 1930s or so, a colonization effort by an initially fringe group of Jewish zealots, the Zionist movement; they became much more mainstream after the horrors of the Holocaust. This colonization effort culminated with the proclamation of the state of Israel as a "Jewish and Democratic" state in 1948, led mostly by the colonists who started to expel the local population from the region, with the assent of the British Empire, the USA , and even the USSR (and other European powers). This is the beginning point of the current conflict. Going back further in history is completely absurd: the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jewish people, of ancient Romans, of ancient Arabic tribes and so on - just as much if not more so than the Jewish people "returning home".