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> "I also supported cloud computing, participating in 110 customer meetings, and created a company-wide strategy to win back the cloud with 33 specific recommendations, in collaboration with others across 6 organizations."

Man people keep count of this stuff?! Maybe I should too, it does make flexing easier.





I like to measure things. In real life and on computers. But I also have a couple of work reasons for it:

As a remote worker, I'm under extra pressure to prove that remoteness works.

As a senior employee, I'm also under pressure to regularly report where my time is spent.


As a senior employee. This is just the opposite of what I would expect.

(I’m not the author of this)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46146451

As a senior employee first at a startup from 2018-2020 and then as a staff engineer at a consulting company for the last year (with a 4 year at BigTech detour between), no one really micromanages me.

Even at the consulting company, when I am on a project, I just put 40 hours in Salesforce with the project I’m assigned to - with no details - or put “bench” - again with no details.

Why would my company care? The customer is happy, the project is managed through Jira (where I as the lead create the tasks) and my company gets paid when the project is done.

I am sure I ask for feedback after every project in our peer review system.


Note how the author doesn't work for tiny little companies like you.

Yeah, it's how everywhere is measured. But I like to remember Joel Spolsky's takes on measuring everything, including his famous book and blog:

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/08/09/the-econ-101-manag...


Contrary to the usual opinion on HN, this provides a good reason to do an MBA!

You should learn enough economics that if you are even a bit insightful you will avoid Econ 101 thinking, you will learn about things like intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and a lot of other things relevant to management.


Damned is this industry, when even _you_ say you have to show that "remoteness works".

I also measure meetings (counts, lengths, and mostly meeting minutes/outine jotted down by myself) and keep track of other metrics, exactly for this reason. However, I also don't happen to have written best selling books and stuff, so I really must do this, and you really shouldn't have to :-)


I have more respect for him because he chose to do this. It’s probably clear that he doesn’t have to, at all. But he’s choosing not to rely on his (somewhat) tech celebrity status and deliver on measurable outcomes.

We like that you like to measure things. That's why I bought your book.

Do you have a particularly easy way to track or are you kind of doing the same thing as consultant and logging your dailies? Always drove me a bit crazy having to do that admin piece every day.

If only I had known that in the past, I even once received the completely wrong advice to "not stand out, since your work will speak for itself and you will get recognition".

It depends on the company culture.

(Fancy US tech companies like to be very selective, have a competitive mindset, hire "the best" according to their filters, and then want people to show how amazing they are, uu, so much impact, woah... and in effect people need to constantly manage upwards.

While in many other companies, or "orgs", having a good team cohesion is more important. To blend in a bit, get accepted even if it means foregoing some ambition.)

That said it's always good to have receipts.


> I'm under extra pressure to prove that remoteness works.

Did keeping track and reporting that number help prove this?


It doesn't need to prove that. It needs to produce plausible data that appeases either your direct or +1 manager.

measuring number of meetings seems deflection of actual output!

It's your personal blog though. But again nothing wrong with turning that into a form of LinkedIn post

>As a remote worker, I'm under extra pressure to prove that remoteness works.

You were delegated a manager's job?

>As a senior employee, I'm also under pressure to regularly report where my time is spent.

Normally, this is stored in the time tracker, not in your memory.


In corps tracking hours is only for the grunts...

Exactly, I can’t imagine that a “senior” developer needs to track everything that carefully. Hell I work at a consulting company full time as a staff consultant where we do have to record hours and I don’t go into any detail whether I’m on or off a project.

At big tech you have to quantify your value like this regularly, so yeah everyone keeps track of the minutiae.

Hehe, no wonder big tech doesn't get anything done.

It’s more that it takes so long to get anything done, the effort and results need to be recorded because it most often won’t be obvious from the impact. It’s hard to make a splash on a production system maintained by 30 other people, but you can usually make things better, but it won’t always be obvious.

It's the overhead cost caused by trust breakdown. (tbf sometimes the timesheets are there for legal/tax reasons)

whats ur point, there's countless of examples to counter your statement

from Windows, Linux, Chromium, VS Code, programming langugages, tools like k8s, AI to revenue! :D


I guess they don’t know how or don’t bother to evaluate people on what they actually contribute? Just number of meetings attended, number of tickets closed?

Those meetings were the authors actual contributions. Any really senior person isn't going to be coding.

What does "actually contributed" mean?

Joe implemented feature A. Sandra implemented feature B. Raj implemented C. All launched in July. Since then metric X is up 20%. Who gets credit, and what does that credit really mean?

Now say all 3 did that in 3 different products. One produced a 200% improvement in an internal product, one a 40% improvement in a product with thousands of users, one a 1% improvement in a product with a billion users? Compare *that*.


Still it is a faulty metric.

200% improvement may just be the result of feature A and 40% may just be the max performance gain from feature B. Comparing developers over the effectiveness of features they implement is mostly rating the PMs or the leadership they work with. Its a dice roll and its a measure of one's luck to be at the right place & right time to work on the right task.


Then what's your proposal?

People complain about using metrics. People complain about rating performance based on what your manager or coworkers say about you. Performance reviews are an unsolved hard problem.


> Then what's your proposal?

Not the OP, but my proposal is to acknowledge that unsolved hard problems are... unsolved. Instead of inventing bullshit and pretending it's constructive. Some people make a career out of that bullshitting, others complain about it because it actually has a negative impact on them.

"What's your proposal", in my experience, is often used as a defense against someone calling bullshit. My proposal when I'm calling bullshit is that the bullshitter start being professional, but it's not exactly something I can say.


Managers can be lazy just like anyone.

Keeping track of actual value would require actually rewarding people proportionally; all jobs ever only really care about how often you're on time or your meeting attendance record.

Rewarding people proportionally is a macro-level unsolved problem. Kropotkin wrote it about it and his solution was to throw his hands in the air and say fuck it, labor value is impossible to accurately evaluate, and thus he invented anarchist communism.

Just look at all the weird quirks our world does to labor value: the same exact job in two different locations for a global employer (say, Google), selling to a global market, pays differently depending on "local labor market prices." In 2025 for engineering what on earth is a "local labor market?" An optimization coming from an engineer in Taiwan saves you the same money as if it comes from an engineer in SF but the SF engineer gets 8x the reward for doing the work. Luxury goods and electronics cost the same in both places. Buying property is only slightly cheaper in Taipei vs sf (yes really), vehicles cost more in Taiwan. Food and healthcare is cheaper in Taiwan, and that alone I guess means the Taiwanese engineer is worth 1/8th the SF engineer, to make sure the sf engineer can afford 16$ burritos?

Many other quirks. You point out another one: labor often isn't rewarded based on real value to a company, for many reasons but one of which is that managers often don't understand the job of the people they're managing and so apply management relevant KPIs to disciplines where those KPIs don't make any sense. Engineering, for example, doesn't correlate actual value add to the company via meetings attended or customers met, but that won't stop management from applying those KPIs and thinking it does!

I'm torn between thinking we keep things this way out of ignorance vs we keep it this way maliciously so the management class (which sets the rates) doesn't get written out of labor agreements altogether because they're often useless vs if we didn't keep up this charade, capitalism would just collapse entirely.


Agreed. There's the additional point that I think many people don't appreciate, which is that those managers and many people lower down in the org chart merely exist because somebody else needs to be responsible for a system or a liability regardless of whether they do anything measurably profitable, and aren't necessarily incentivized to do anything more productively; they're just there to take care of it or be blamed if it's not, and have a low ceiling for what that job can possibly be worth with no measurable way to argue for more, and so in the case of managers, try to invent clout-generators at any cost and with no connection to how the assignees might accomplish it.

> An optimization coming from an engineer in Taiwan saves you the same money as if it comes from an engineer in SF but the SF engineer gets 8x the reward for doing the work.

Suppose you have a thousand engineers and those thousand engineers generate ten billion dollars in annual profit. How much do they each get paid? They amount they're worth? Nope, the amount they'll accept.

If you live in the US and you have the wherewithal to be an engineer then you could also have been a doctor or a lawyer or some other high paying occupation. And many of those can't be fully remote because they have to see domestic patients or interact in person with local courts or clients. Which means that if you want someone in the US to be your engineer, you need to pay them an amount that makes them want to do that instead of choosing one of those other occupations. Whereas the one in Taiwan doesn't have the option to become a doctor in San Francisco and is therefore willing to accept less money.

So why don't companies just hire exclusively the people in Taiwan? There are all the usual reasons (time zones, language barriers, etc.), but a big one is that they need a thousand engineers. So they and their competitors hire every qualified engineer in Taiwan until Taiwanese engineers reach full employment, at which point the companies still don't have all the engineers they want. And when the average engineer is making the company ten million dollars, paying San Francisco salaries is better than not having enough talent.

So then why doesn't every smart person in Taiwan become an engineer? Because the companies hiring engineers there are only paying Taiwanese wages, and then they're not any better off to do that than to become a doctor or a lawyer in Taiwan. And if they would pay higher wages there, the local economy would have to start paying local doctors and engineers more to keep them all from becoming engineers, and then you would only get a modest increase in the number of engineers for a significant increase in compensation. Which is still what happens, but only slowly over time, until the wages in Taiwan ultimately increase enough to no longer be a competitive advantage. And companies don't want to make that happen faster because then they'd have to pay higher salaries in Taiwan.


How much you are paid is based on your power over the organization, which is why useless senior executives are paid far more than everyone else.

Why would you say useless? They hopefully make a couple of good decisions. Three good decisions a day [1], maybe?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfY3uRCvEMo


You are wrong. The price of luxuries and everything is different around the world. Plus purchase power diffrnce

> An optimization coming from an engineer in Taiwan saves you the same money as if it comes from an engineer in SF but the SF engineer gets 8x the reward for doing the work.

An underappreciated difference is that it's hard to schedule meetings between people in SF and Taiwan, because of time zones.


I’ve been working in FAANG for some years in a senior position. Never had to track or speak to things like this lol.

I know some of them do this, but ours doesn't. There is a once yearly self-review, and as far as I can tell it has literally no impact on your actual performance review and compensation, which are basically entirely up to your manager's observations of you.

So it is important to keep your manager informally up to date on what you're doing, at least during the weeks they're thinking about performance.


No I don’t.

If you look at many of his recent blog entries, it is clear he has felt the need to quantify his impact to prove he isn’t less effective as a remote employee in Australia working for a company in the US.

I'm surprised someone with his reputation would need to do this.

Intel's management did not appreciate (as likely did not understand) tech skills/talent lately, which likely contributed to them squandering their lead.

While I have a personal career document and have had one for years where I have all of my major accomplishments in STAR format. This seems a bit much.

When I was at BigTech, there was an internal system where you recorded your major accomplishments and the impact they had.

But I would never write it up on a public blog post like this. I am assuming the author of the post must be someone well known in the industry for it to make it to the front page of Hacker News. If his intent was to promote himself so he could get another job, I’m sure that he has a network where a few messages would lead him to one.

Even in my little niche of the world where in the grand scheme of things I’m a nobody, I was able to lean on my network at 50 after being Amazoned in 2023 and have three offers that were at least a lateral move within two weeks.

I had one fall into my lap last year too that I accepted based on my network.


Use gcalcli to search for meetings with customer invited. That's it! Also, for an engineer that isn't in sales, 110 customer meetings is A LOT.

... is it? I had 14 meetings with externals this week only lol

Of course, always take notes, they will help when doing escalations, or justify oneself in review meetings.

A lot of people consider score keeping like this to be more important than the job itself.

I can't even say that they are wrong.


Parse your calendar export (.ics) file and count events of a certain name and voila?

Isn't that show-off? I mean you have achieved is good but feels like bragging about it ! Just a thought

I mean maybe. We often have weekly customer meetings. One of my programs has 2 customers, we meet with both weekly. So do I put idk 200+ customer meetings? That seems like a weird metric because it's like "compiled code 400 times." I've seen resumes that have the same vibe. We did not hire them. Sometimes it's very telling what people think are accomplishments.

All startups in due course turn into Byzantine labyrinths of bureaucracy. Only the record keepers survive.

"Count your meetings"

Wouldn't hurt to try!


The fact that they were busy keeping count during those 110 occasions and for every other activity clearly tells that they nothing better to do. You have to be loud about such numbers when you have very little meaningful work to show for.



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