Yes. What I don't understand is why you blame Google for being forced by justice departments to do this and still resisting (e.g. publishing the numbers). Trust me that's showing a LOT more backbone than BT ever has shown.

Are you aware all Telcos, from AT&T to BT do the same, except 1000x bigger scale?

Have you ever seen the interface that the police forces of many countries demanded be delivered along with cell phone towers? You can livetrack individual phones (location, proximity), listen in, get lists of websites they visit (not 100% accurate, but pretty good, this part is sort of like Palo Alto Networks. E.g. you see when the system thinks they're sending or receiving Facebook messages)

Are you aware that in the Police department, yes, you have "IT cops", but they don't work to protect institutions, they mostly work to catch "copyright thieves". Not even bank fraud (which is a huge problem, btw). They're actually terrified of doing something about that (because it involves international relations and they're pretty sure the result some organized scammer would be someone in the department gets fired)

Are you aware that an EU country kidnapped the CEO of a large instant messenger, actually tried to keep it secret, then charged him with "complicity to child sex trafficking" and is still holding him?

Are you aware that a US police officer used cell phone lawful intercept to stalk, then beat up, his ex-girlfriend 3 years ago? He got fired for it but no persecution, then he got a friend to do the same again.

And this is all JUST public information. Things are way, way worse than what's leaked.

No offense, but Google is not the problem in this space.

> What I don't understand is why you blame Google for being forced

They weren't forced. I linked to sources showing they voluntarily handed over the information. There is no resistance.

> Have you ever seen the interface that the police forces of many countries demanded be delivered

No, but I'd imagine it looks a lot like the comprehensive information that Google provided without warrants in the first two links I provided.

> Are you aware all Telcos, from AT&T to BT do the same, except 1000x bigger scale?

Also terrible. Doesn't excuse Google.

> Are you aware that an EU country

> Are you aware that a US police officer

These are states and agents of the state, which Google is not. Google also doesn't execute people in public hangings, but that doesn't excuse their actions as a company.

Google unethically assists state actors. It's why they removed "Don't be evil" as their motto. They are not a force for good in the world, they are a company that exists to maximize shareholder value. The benevolent ideals you ascribe to the company are not based on the reality of their actions.

So you're angry at Google ... because they fail to fight not just 1 country, but all countries' police forces on your behalf enough? I mean you even seem to agree they do fight them, just not enough to completely defeat them ...

Ok then. Entirely reasonable position, that.

No, I'm pointing out that Google is a for-profit company that collaborates with governments. In the age of mass surveillance, we should dispense with idealistic notions of these companies somehow being forces for good and instead understand their motivations and modes of operation.

Everything else is your words, not mine.

I was making an argument about Google specifically, compared to other companies, especially state monopolies and "ex-"state-monopolies, not about the abstract notion of what a company is. If your point is simply that companies can't entirely ignore the law and that makes them inherently evil ...

Ex is between scare quotes because I don't believe for one second governments aren't currently both controlling these companies AND sabotaging their competition.

Well, I'd say your anger is misdirected and should go towards governments and the law, not companies.

I sat next to the "law enforcement liaison" team at a Telco many years ago. They were all ex-cops and I could listen in on the conversations that had with cops. There was never even the slightest push back. Just sexism, racism, blokey humour and "yeah we'll get that info for you".