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How can people see the propaganda that happens in, say, North Korea, but fail to see what is happening in their own country?

It boggles. It truly does.



A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get to talking.

The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to go learn American propaganda techniques.

"What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American.

"Exactly," the Russian replies.


This is the best joke I've heard in a long time


The version I know is a little different: A Russian visits America and meets an American at a bar and they get talking about life in Russia. "How is the propaganda?" says the American. "It's everywhere, but it's easy to ignore it" says the Russian. "Yours is much better." "But we don't have propaganda here" says the American. "Exactly" says the Russian.

idk how a person can be forced to pledge allegiance to the flag every morning and not think that's some North Korean style shit.


When I was in kindergarten, I refused to do the pledge one day. My teacher was livid. "Are you American or not?"

Being 5, I didn't know the difference between ethnicity and nationality (I'm Asian but I was born here and didn't know any life outside of America). So I was afraid that my teacher would not let me be American anymore if I didn't say the pledge. So I said it and never refused to say it in school again.

It wasn't til I was well into my adulthood that I realize how absurd that situation sounds.


So you were actually pledging under duress. Contracts and statements made under duress are usually treated as null and void, so you have that going for you.

Still highly unethical of that teacher


I mean I don't think anything we do or say as a 5 year old is considered binding, otherwise I'm on the hook for a lot of nonsense :)


Have you considered, however, how that event shaped your developing and impressionable subconscious and possibly influenced your future behavior as an adult?


It's not something I fully understood as a child. I didn't even fully grasp the concept of "nationality" so when she asked if I was American I just said yes because I didn't know what it meant. I just understood that not saluting meant teacher mad, just like not cleaning up my toys in the classroom meant teacher mad.


... or realize that they are not morally superior to china as long as they don't abolish the death penalty.


A simple answer is that they see neither.

What they think they see is actually a short snapshot of North Korean life with a red circle, a red arrow and a red caption text that says "North Korean propaganda here!!! -->", carefully drawn by their local propaganda.

Sanity check: I present you a country X, whose language you don't speak, and whose news you don't read day to day. I show you their politician saying something. Can you tell if that was propaganda? Substitute X from "North Korea" to a country you know nothing about and see how the answer changes.


Seems reasonable but it's not as if no one speaks Korean outside North Korea to verify what's being said.


People don't believe native speakers of their own language when they're told things that conflict with their political world view. Why would they trust someone who says "that's not an accurate translation" if that collides with their political opinions?


For any outsider telling me about North Korea, including South Koreans, I can't tell if I've been pranked with e.g. the South Korean version of The Onion, let alone something milder like I'm being told about this by someone who takes their version Breitbart more seriously than their version of The Wall Street Journal.


You can translate it yourself with automated tooling nowadays. You can ask a second opinion from a different Korean.


[flagged]


> I mean if you agree with it, it’s not propaganda

A very workable definition of "propaganda" might be "an idea crafted specifically so that you will think it was your idea in the first place"

That's why "agreeing" with propaganda is not the correct verb.

You either believe propaganda or you don't. This has nothing to do with reason or logic.


Sure, and this 70% of Americans bullshit is propaganda by that measure. It is frequently trotted out on HN and is met with enthusiastic belief despite being total ass pull. There are US Senators pushing this propaganda and people enthusiastically agreeing.


What percentage of Americans do you think live paycheck to paycheck?


[flagged]


The phrase "live paycheck to paycheck" means "To spend all that one earns without saving anything", not the literal interpretation of "failing to die between paychecks" that you seem to be using here.

(IIRC, 60-70% is based on surveys, that percentage of people feel they're living like that, but actual stats are much lower, like 25% or so, but it's important to make sure the same thing is being discussed when having conversations like this).


[flagged]


> It’s written by Democratic Party partisans

In a marvelous twist of irony, the commenter unwittingly and perfectly exemplified how easily it is to get people talking as if they were good little disciples of Goebbels. But don't worry: he's here to make us all woke, or red pilled or whatever specific propaganda term the party has commanded during this election cycle


Guy who is a Democratic Party partisan: I’m a Democratic Party partisan

Other Guy: This is what Nazis would say

Great minds of Hacker News at work


1. a. Why do you think I'd believe something written by Democratic Party partisans?

b. Partisans? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/slow-boring-bias-and-credibil...

2.

a. LendingClub: "According to a Reality Check: Paycheck to Paycheck survey conducted by LendingClub and PYMNTS, 60% of employed U.S. adults, including more than four in 10 high-income earners, are living one paycheck to the next with little to no financial cushion.": https://www.lendingclub.com/resource-center/personal-finance...

b. LendingTree: ""Americans Rely on Credit Cards to Make Ends Meet As 64% Admit to Living Paycheck to Paycheck": https://www.lendingtree.com/debt-consolidation/paycheck-to-p...

c. PYMNTS: "61%: Share of the U.S. population living paycheck to paycheck as of December 2021 // 54%: Portion of baby boomers and seniors who live paycheck to paycheck": https://www.pymnts.com/study/reality-check-paycheck-to-paych...

d. PNC Bank/The PNC Financial Services Group, Inc.: "67% of U.S. workers surveyed say they are living paycheck to paycheck. That’s up from 63% last year." page 6: https://www.pnc.com/content/dam/pnc-com/pdf/corporateandinst...

e. ADP Research: "Nearly two out of three workers say they’re living paycheck to paycheck.": https://www.adpresearch.com/repetitive-task-workers-financia...

f. All those are neutral. If you want, I could also find slight D-leaning: CNBC / SurveyMonkey: "more than half of Americans (61%) consider themselves to be “living paycheck to paycheck,” up from 58% in March of this year": https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/07/majority-of-americans-feelin...

g. As previously mentioned, 60-70 is a vibes check, asking people how they feel. Those same vibes checks from R-leaning sources do much the same, they just don't report it with the same phrasing. Which is fine so long as everyone's on the same page about what words mean, but even with the stricter phrasing that R reporters prefer for "paycheck to paycheck", it's not even close to the same meaning you were using which comes across as being needlessly literal-minded for the sake of rhetoric rather than situational awareness.


Haha, I can’t believe I said “you’re just falling for startup content marketing” and you’re like “okay, so here are my sources from startup content marketing”. Truly an art form, my dear fellow, your performance.


Uh, what? People don't "agree" with stats. They either believe it at face value, or they fact check the stats and find, oh, this is actually true but the study was limited, or they find that it is indeed just bullshit. No agreement necessary.

Politicians taking advantage of the fact that their constituents will not fact check them is propaganda 101.


Anybody can live paycheck to paycheck if they want to - no matter how much you earn you can spend it all.

So the "statistic" or the saying has no relevance for anything.


My comment has nothing to do with the actual statistic of living paycheck-to-paycheck. OP could have used a completely different (made up or not) statistic. Of course the statistic will change when you change the definition.


It looks very different from the outside than it does from the inside. We are all subject to this.


Does it though? I don't see Canadian or Swiss or Slovak propaganda regularly reminding us that their country's leader is the "greatest ever."


Because some nations are leader-oriented and some nations are system-oriented. Ask any European if they support the state system in their country. Or ask any muslim if their branch of Islam is the best.

Almost all countries in the world will have heavy handed propaganda that their way of organizing things are the best and most fair that could ever exist.


The question was about North Korean propaganda and American propaganda. Both are powerful and hard to see when you are immersed in them. That some countries do not take the same approach makes this no less true. However there are other forms of propaganda. What I did not mention was that I am vegan. Only when you stop eating meat do you see how immersed in it we are. The pervasiveness and shared assumptions are there. Whether it’s who to hate or what to spend money on or what to eat. In the US the real propaganda is the stuff both parties agree on.


Mark Carney's famous speech at Davos was a breath of fresh air compared with anything ever spewed by the deranged current president of the USA. I am so glad I live in the best country in the world with him as prime minister and that we have no propaganda here in Canada. We will do so much better when we enter trade agreement negotiations with that degenerate loser south of the border in the next few months. That guy can't even ties his own shoes because of his cankles, but Mark Carney can tie not only his own shoes but he always wears sensible socks too.

You may have missed propaganda because you missed the propaganda.


I think you will enjoy this: https://youtube.com/shorts/k3nwW40sYkI


If you think NK an US look the same from the outside check your body temp. Source: am outside both.


I'm outside both and I'm not seeing a lot of difference. Main one is that one is threatening everyone with nukes, and the other one isn't making any threats I can understand because they're in Korean.


No. We aren’t all subject to this. MAGA isn’t even logically consistent. You don’t even need fact checking to spot the bullshit.

And miss me with the inevitable both sides response.


Weren't they all anti war a few months ago and anti pedo before that?


Not sure what you're talking about. We were always at war with Iran.




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