Other than a not-uncommon desire to stay in power and grow the economy, Erdogan really doesn't seem to share the same endgame as Singapore's de facto founder. One is a traditional Muslim accused by his critics of undermining the secularist underpinnings of the modern Turkish state; the other an ardent multiculturalist who ended up apologising for a comment suggesting Muslims ought to be less strict in their observances. Erdogan recommends Turkish women need to rear at least three children to "keep the population young" and helped provoke the riots by trying to tighten regulation on abortion. Lee Kuan Yew introduced the "Stop at Two" family planning advocacy campaign and legalised abortion.

Ironically it's values that Singapore's uber-strict legal system has rigidly defended - anti-corruption, state secularism and individual religious freedom - that the Turkish rioters claim motivate their opposition to the Erdogan's government. They've managed to leave more trees intact than central Istanbul too. :)

Last time I was in Turkey, they had a huge greenery programme going on in Anatolia (i.e. I saw it in Ankara and surroundings). Interesting, that Istanbul had its tree cover reduced.

> I find Singapore to be the scariest dystopia in the world today.

What?

Anyway, Singapore is the greenest city on earth. It'll be more likely to see people here protesting the demolition of a shopping mall to build a park than vice versa. It's ridiculous to compare this to what is happening in Turkey now.

The quintissential idea of a dystopia is that it's a safe place to live, the streets are clean, you have jobs and food and security. As long as you stay in the lines put in place by the State you're fine.

But women can only wear skirts 2 inches below the knee. Lipstick must be color 22 or 46. Men cannot have beards. Or you must have a beard. You must wear a tie to work, even if you collect garbage. The news going to report what it's told to report, not necessarily whats happening in front of everyone. Photos can and will be edited to reflect the proper history that should exist. God help you if your faith is the minority and says you must not cut your hair. When you leave your shiny office with your coworkers for lunch, remember not to leave in groups larger than 4 because its against the law.

So I am not saying my specific examples happen in Singapore. But you don't seem to get that we aren't really talking about Singapore.

We're talking about dystopian ways of living that exist on earth, right now. We're talking about people with lots of money actively trying to make stuff like what I just said part of your life, right now. It never happens over night. It's one day at a time. One accident, one criminal act. One new camera on a street, one new law passed.

So slowly, so you feel safer, until one day you see something happening around you that you don't like and decide to speak up. No one sees you at work tomorrow or the next day. You and your wife and kids just disappeared one night. No one saw anything, even if they did. In a week, a new family moves into your nice modern apartment. Someone else gets your cushy job. No one talks about you. They feel safe, too.

Actually, it is you who has no clue.

Please read my response to the parent. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5809506

You are right, I have no idea what this has to do with Singapore at all!

And if we aren't talking about Singapore why do we keep saying Singapore?!

So clearly the best option is to simply claim it as "rubbish" instead of discussing and trying to understand the other persons viewpoint.

have you ever been to singapore?

I have visited Singapore several times. My anglo-saxon, western uncle lived and worked in Singapore as a teacher for a number of years. I even had brief involvement in a start-up business in Singapore.

I cannot identify in any way with the portrayal of Singapore as some dystopian nightmare. If anything I would describe it as a safe, pleasant, interesting and diverse city-state. In my experience, police are courteous, bureaucracy is minimal and people do a remarkably good job of living good lives in spite of the dense population in many areas. I would concede that in the time I've been there I've witnessed immigrant workers from neighbouring countries essentially imported to work in menial labour and the entertainment/sex trade. However looking at the conditions they're coming from, I'm sure to many it is the best opportunity to improve their lives they are likely to get.

And in the end, the human outcome for real people is the most important aspect of a society. For all the self-righteous feel-goodery about "free" political expression, nobody really cares about the important political messages you're posting on your blog. What's the value of your free voice when at the end of the day you can vote in the "conservative" guys who don't give a shit, or the "progressive" guys who don't give a shit? I'd rather have slightly better governance without the illusion of choice, thanks very much.

I think people should be able to say whatever ignorant things they want to say, and their ignorance should be displayed by stating facts countering their arguments, rather than censoring them or simply shouting them down with substance-free statements.

That may be the case but the fact that he was making an analogy between the way governments and private industry are setup, the mix of conservative ideology and lack of some of the freedoms was obvious. Again, whether you agree with that, is another issue, but your phrased you answer as if you didn't understand that he was making a comparison.

Basically it seemed you were skimming through comments about Turkey saw a comment on Singapore and just replied "what is this doing here, we are talking about Turkey".

It is also interesting that the gp post indicated clearly what he thought it has to do with Singapore if you want to continue the argument you can perhaps provide counter-arguments to their point, instead of insinuating that they got lost and thought we were discussing an article about libertarian city states or something.

What bubble are you living in because it desperately needs to be popped.

If caning its own citizens is not evidence of a nanny state that treats people like children, I don't know what is.

Not that I want to sound like a supporter Singapore's judicial system but I didn't expect to hear this from a citizen of a country that is allowed to kill as a form of punishment.

(Making the assumption that you are from the US, apologies if I got that wrong).

I was merely disagreeing with the parent's assertion that Singapore has some form of enlightened government that doesn't trample on personal freedoms, and treats its citizens with respect.

I made no such assertion. But perhaps you should enlighten yourself on exactly what personal freedoms are being trampled upon here, and how exactly Singapore's citizens are being disrespected. You just made a bullshit statement that you can get caned for littering in Singapore. What else of your opinion of Singapore is based on similar ignorance?

Next you are going to tell me chewing gum is banned in Singapore (gasp!). And I'm going to quote you something random from http://itthing.com/100-weird-laws-from-around-the-world (let's go with "In Indiana, it’s against the law to dress ‘Barbie’ in ‘Ken’s’ clothes" this time)

Surely the issue - assuming active littering is punished by caning and in this narrow area - is that any adult in such a place would never come up against the consequences of the law.

It's not treating mature people like children it's treating antisocial adults as immoral.

>Singapore also differs from the United States where penalties are determined by a judge;breaking certain laws in Singapore can come with mandatory decisions that still include cane beatings.

At least attempt some research

Give me a break.

Assuming a lot eh?

But yes, at some point, we have to make assumptions based on the information we have available.