> It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics.
It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not.
Mark Rippletoe's Starting Strength program, administered by a cautious enough trainer, will get most anyone of those characteristics, healthy adult male under 40, there. It's what Mark does for a living. It may be uncomfortable eating several thousand calories a day if you're skinny, but you can't blame the program for your failure to do that.
I did starting Strength for about 4 months before I got injured, I was well on my way to 400 by that time. I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. It does exactly what it says on the tin.
I know all about SS and think it's a good program. It doesn't change the fact that some people will not be able to get that strong, or will find it very difficult or time-consuming. This is just an empirical fact. If you want to "no true scotsman" every counterexample and say the person didn't have the right trainer, didn't work hard enough, or didn't drink his milk, I can't stop you. But I've personally seen people do it and not get anywhere close to deadlifting 400lbs. They were just ectomorphs and didn't put on muscle like that.
There's lifting for general health and then there's lifting to get very strong.
One does not need to be able to pick 400 lbs off the floor in order to alleviate back pain. To gain that much strength in a year, a person will have to eat a lot of calories in order to produce the muscle mass necessary for lifting that much weight.
Unfortunately, high caloric intake seems to be correlated with some negative health outcomes. The correlations persist across levels of fitness (weightlifting vs obesity).
Exercise is a great way to reduce pain and improve things like sleep and energy. Lifting weights is a good way to exercise. But, one does not have to dramatically increase calories to see those benefits. You only need a big jump in calories is high strength is the goal.
> > It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics.
> It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not.
And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics.
> I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan.
"Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X.
> And "whether you are able to avoid injury or not" while trying to train up to that goal in the time period suggested depends on so many factors, like body type and genetics.
Not so. You get injured when you exceed your body's ability to sustain the load. You have to be aware of those limitations and work actively on building the ability to exceed them. In weight-lifting that means 1) proper form and 2) knowing when to stop. The former is easier to attain than the latter, but if you can do both, then you can avoid injuring yourself while still making gains.
> "Anyone who has experienced X must recognize the simple effectiveness of X" pretty much defines being a zealot for X.
That's ridiculous. I've experienced driving a manual transmission and recognize the simplicity of the system and that it gives you a better connection to your engine than an automatic does. Even so, I drive an automatic. If I had a sports car, I'd want a manual, but not for my primary vehicle.
I've done many, many things to keep in shape over the years. Starting Strength is great, but it's by no means the only or even best way to do that. That would imply perfection, which doesn't exist. What it is is effective at doing what it sets out to do. Which many other approaches and plans don't have.
What's great about SS is that you don't have to throw your whole life into it to experience gains. Just follow the program and you'll get stronger. If you didn't get stronger you weren't following the program. Many of the things I've tried didn't have this property. I took dance classes for a year before I realized I either needed to be rich enough to afford a private tutor or to have been dancing since I was eight to really get it right, and if I'm not getting it right, there are better ways to accomplish fitness goals.
I think these people underestimate what they can already deadlift. I feel like most adult males under 40 could DL at least 200 lbs from the start.
Genetics only play a minor role in how much one progresses unless you count the Y-chromosome. The biggest factor is how much testosterone your body produces. If you're male, you're probably fine.
I'm sort of an SS hater, but it IS a good program for people that are starting from little to no knowledge of lifting.
EDIT: Apparently I'm off around 20 lbs. Most adult men can deadlift over 180lbs it seems.
I spent years lifting weights, and I also believe that most people could deadlift 200lbs from the start. I also believe that once they learn technique, they could increase that to at least 250 without putting on any extra muscle. A big part of lifting something heavy is knowing the right way to lift and which muscles you should be using to do it.
Hell, if you can jump a few times and do two or three pushups, you've already got the muscles needed to deadlift more than your own bodyweight.
Fair correction, I was going off the parent's statement of males under 40.
I'm talking one rep max after warm up. A beginner would be hard pressed to rep nearly that much. My one rep max when I started was 185 and increased to over 300 within a few months. After a year I was maxing at 415, that's where I stopped going any further. I have had (and have seen) massive gains in one rep max just from learning good technique and getting your muscles used to lifting for a week.
I've had +25 lbs to 1RM simply by using reverse grip.
I posted a link to an article that shows the 50th percentile is around 180lbs for males. People always underestimate their deadlift. They don't realize they're using some of the strongest muscles in their bodies.
I think people also don't get a true 1RM on DL because they're scared of hurting something (and admittedly n00bs that aren't cautious often hurt themselves). It takes a month or two of getting comfortable with the technique before you can take your first accurate 1RM.
SS is just very basic. It's great at getting you going but competitive athletes use more advanced programs.
I personally use college football lifting programs. These are built to get the maximum out of athletes in the span of four years and focus on building an all-around athletic strength, not just maxing out the big three lifts. Because of the nature of football, the competitiveness, and the revenue it generates, the lifting programs have to be on the cutting edge. The strength programs tend to be shared only within football circles. The teams keep meticulous track of players' maxes and are constantly tweaking their programs and collaborating with other strength and conditioning experts to get the maximum out of their players. And they actually have the data where they can compare success of last year's program with this year's with a hundred or so data points, which allows them to make faster iterations on their programs.
If you look the numbers that college football players can put up in olys and powerlifting, so many of them technically qualify for nationals in those sports. Even though lifting isn't their main focus. For example, my brother played D-I ball and had a 1,604 lb three lift total by his junior year. That's 243 lbs higher than the collegiate powerlifting qualifier for nationals (in his weight class) and he was by no means a freakish outlier for his team or conference strength-wise. Maybe only a bit above average for a lineman.
How much do you weigh? That plays a big role. I used to lift with a friend who was 6' and weighed 120lbs. He struggled with just the bar (45lbs) initially because he had no muscle mass at all. Your average male under 40 has a decent amount of muscle.
Other than that, there's a lot to be said for a proper trainer who can help get your form right and give you motivation. I would easily lose 20lbs off my max when I was lifting with a partner who couldn't motivate me as well.
Do you know what your actual 1RM is? Or have you calculated via submax?
Do you have good grip on the bar? That can also hurt your DL max as well.
Regardless, there is nothing wrong with being at a lower percentile than others when you start! My first bench max was like 65 lbs. Just keep grinding, man. :)
It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not.
Mark Rippletoe's Starting Strength program, administered by a cautious enough trainer, will get most anyone of those characteristics, healthy adult male under 40, there. It's what Mark does for a living. It may be uncomfortable eating several thousand calories a day if you're skinny, but you can't blame the program for your failure to do that.
I did starting Strength for about 4 months before I got injured, I was well on my way to 400 by that time. I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. It does exactly what it says on the tin.